Empress and Tower as Fears

Thirteen said:

Yikes! Sounds like a really interesting reading!

I wasn't, by the way, questioning your particular reading--only that in this case (the reading for this thread), the Queen/Pents is shored up by an Empress; and that might give it a different twist than if it was just Queen/Pents. Empress is less likely to grasp after trust funds--and more likely to want to control your life and treat you like a child, as moms do.

Although given that the Queen/Pents did show up, I do wonder if the weakness involved might have to do with mom providing money?

Given what you've said, Queen/Pents seems to be an astonishingly apt card for your particular reading, not only in the status of "mom" but in the trust fund element as well.

Click to expand...

I didn't take that negatively at all, but I will say that of all the court cards, those Queens have always been the most interesting and full of surprises, and you have to keep an eye on those Pages too those little imps, yes they came up in the reading as well.

I've heard a few people here complain that they don't or can't read the Pages, but ignore them at your own peril . you know that saying, children are a reflection of their parents.

I would see it as a fear that when the chips are down he won't take care of her. Perhaps he tends to see her as the caretaker and she fears he can't be relied on if she becomes ill or depressed, to provide the nurturing she'll need.

Nevada

Some more great takes on these cards.

The thing was though, this wasn't a relationship spread. This was a spread purely about him, his character, work, family, past that kind of thing.

So I don't think I can really apply these cards to his relationship with my friend in this case. But I've got some really good notes to write down if they do show up in a relationship reading now!

MissCW said:

I didn't tell my friend about my feeling about the childhood thing - because I didn't feel it was right to go there, after all he wasn't asking for a reading, she was. So I can't really confirm whether he has or he hasn't. Is this the right thing to do in this situation? I was sort of thinking until he tells her, its none of our business really.

Click to expand...

Actually, I disagree with Dulcimer (which is rare--Dulci and I are usually on the same page). I've done readings where the querent asked about a relationship or something else...and the cards, like this time, went in their own direction. The cards shouted a warning or a feeling to me that was very powerful.

And that means it's important for the querent to know. Why would the cards tell me anything they didn't want passed onto the querent? It's the querent's READING, not mine. I'm just the interpeter. The message is FOR THEM!

Think about it: Wouldn't YOU want to know if your boyfriend had a mom who was making his life hell? Who might make your relationship hell? Who might not approve of it and get in the way of it? Wouldn't you want your card reader to tell you: "You need to deal with the mother issue or else this relationship might be in trouble"?

ESPECIALLY with the TOWER there, which says to me that this guy might know his mom's going to be a problem--but he hasn't told his girlfriend that. He's keeping it secret. Maybe dealing with Mom all on his own or lying to himself about it being a problem. So he is NOT going to tell his girlfriend and the message won't get to her until it's too late for her to do anything about it.

Now if you'd been reading for the guy, then it wouldn't be your business to tell this stuff to his girlfriend. It'd be his reading alone, his message to pass on to others or not. But as you were reading for her, this was something important that the cards (or powers behind the cards) think she needs to know. That feeling in your gut only confirms it. At least to me.

I don't mean, by the way, that you stomp on into it shouting, "Watch out for his mother!" You say, "Listen, I know this reading was about the relationship, but I'm getting a really strong feeling here. I think your partner has some issues with his mother and it's going to affect how he relates to you, and how this relationship is going to go. Do you see anything like this?"

IMHO, if the cards gave you this message, it's because YOU can go into it and help and warn this person when no one else can or is willing to--you can bring up something she maybe suspects but doesn't want to admit (i.e., that mom has to be dealt with?). So yes, in my opinion, it very much is your business to tell your querent what you're seeing even if it seems unrelated to the question or querent.

The thing about this that bothers me and why I think you should keep this to yourself is because of what I've been reading in the thread. There is a lot of speculation going on here. References to childhood trauma and even child abuse when in fact we know very little of the truth of the matter. If you are going to mention what you have seen in the reading then you are going to need to be very careful with what you say. You need to be accurate. If there is a childhood trauma which he has suppressed or, worse, repressed then raising the matter may not be the best thing to do. If he has not come to terms with it or is ready to face it then you could make it worse by driving it deeper into his psyche. How would he feel about having his secret exposed to the cold light of Judgement made by people who don't understand?

It is a thin line between helping and meddling. If there is a serious psychological problem you could be blundering into it - admittedly with the best of intentions, but the road to hell is paved with them. I am assuming you are not a trained therapist. Do you feel you would be able to pick up the pieces if things don't turn out as you hope?

Perhaps Thirteen is right to say the cards want it brought out into the open. But I council caution. If you feel that this is important and you really must intervene then I would recommend further readings to get to the truth of the matter and not to approach your friend until you are sure.
Good luck

MissCW said:

Empress and Tower as Fears

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I was just wondering how you think these two cards work together as something somone would have a fear of?

They came up just yesterday in a reading I was doing for a friend about her partner. Is it a committment thing? Or a fear of women?

I even thought it could be a deep seated "mother" issue. Could this show a mother who in a way has given her child shaky foundations?

I thought this because in the same spread, in a position about his weaknesses, I drew Six of Cups/Queen of Pentacles which seemed to tie in.

This wasn't a relationship spread, it was just a spread about different aspects of him.

Click to expand...

Just to throw a curve ball into this discussion which I just happened upon, it occurs to me that if the question (or the position in the spread) were posed the way you've stated it here: as what would be something this person would have a fear of, that would tend to put this combination into the present tense more than the guy's upbringing.

In that light, couldn't it be that he has a fear of something like a surprising, unwanted pregnancy to deal with? (Empress and Tower). And with the Six of Cups and Queen of Pentacles in a position about his weaknesses, I could see that as a past situation that he's dealt with...you know, maybe a scare like that happened to him before, making him fear it could happen again. Or maybe his weakness is some kind of current connection with a past lover.

And the only reason I say that is that I would think that the Queen of Pents would have shown up as the Queen of Cups (or even the Moon) if it were talking about his mother (and therefore, a possible wobbly upbringing) in the situation. But the Queen of Pents makes me think in this other direction.

I mean, it is quite possible that his mother gave him a shaky foundation during his upbringing...but as something he "would be" afraid of...I don't know if I would necessarily read these cards that way.

Anyway, that's just another possible take - up for discussion...

Dulcimer said:

The thing about this that bothers me and why I think you should keep this to yourself is because of what I've been reading in the thread. There is a lot of speculation going on here. References to childhood trauma and even child abuse when in fact we know very little of the truth of the matter.

Click to expand...

Well, I think there-in lies the problem. It's quite a jump to me to say that this combo represents child abuse. It *might* but it would be pretty absurd for a reader to say, "oh, and your boyfriend was abused as a child. It's crystal clear right here...."

It's not crystal clear. Far from it. All that's indicative here is that the guy may have some sort of issue with his mom or a mother figure or even just women. MAYBE that issue is really really bad and has to do with child abuse. Or MAYBE it's just a message to the girlfriend that her boyfriend has a domineering mom.

The thing is, whether it's a worse case senario or not, the Tower indicates that it's not being talked about. And the cards seem to think that's not a good thing. And the reader, in not talking about it, is just adding to that bad thing.

There are certain things that are NOT the reader's business. It's not the reader's business to tell the boyfriend about it. It isn't the reader's business to be a therapist and call them both in to discuss it. It is only the reader's business to say what he/she sees in the cards: "I'm getting a very strong feeling that there's some issue betweeen your boyfriend and his mother. Is there?"

And now the ball is in the girlfriend's court. Maybe she'll say, "Oh, my God! How did you know? She abused him as a kid. I've been so afraid to talk to him about it..."--in other words, maybe she knows ALL about it already and has just been uncertain if she can discuss it with him. Or maybe she'll say, "Um, no, his mom's seems wonderful...but his stepmother...."--in other words, maybe it has nothing to do with Mom, maybe it's a different type of warning. Or maybe she'll say, "I've been getting that feeling but I wasn't sure. I suppose it's time to talk to him about it."

What the girlfriend decides to do is up to her, and what goes on between girlfriend and boyfriend is their business. The reader's business begins and ends with telling the girlfriend what message is coming through--and hoping that mentioning it will help to clarify it. That's as far as it goes, and as far as it should go.

I couldn't get on last night so I didn't see how this thread had grown!

I have to say Starry, I think your take on this card combo is brilliant as well.

Rightly or wrongly I didn't feel it was place to say anything so didn't act on it at the time. I will have to think about how to deal with this kind of situation in the future.

Maybe one thing you could do - because this was only a general reading - is if cards come up which seem a bit wrong, you could do a further spread exploring what its all about?

In this case, the childhood trauma could be right, but so could Starry's interpretation too (still impressed by this Starry You would have to make sure you were right before telling someone this was their boyfriend's issue, so is that what more experienced readers would do, a further reading to really explore the background etc?

Thirteen said:

What the girlfriend decides to do is up to her, and what goes on between girlfriend and boyfriend is their business. The reader's business begins and ends with telling the girlfriend what message is coming through--and hoping that mentioning it will help to clarify it. That's as far as it goes, and as far as it should go.

Click to expand...

Couldn't have put it better m'self!

starrystarrynight said:

...it occurs to me that if the question (or the position in the spread) were posed the way you've stated it here: as what would be something this person would have a fear of, that would tend to put this combination into the present tense more than the guy's upbringing.

Click to expand...

Spot on!

MissCW said:

...if cards come up which seem a bit wrong, you could do a further spread exploring what its all about...is that what more experienced readers would do, a further reading to really explore the background etc?

Click to expand...

Yes MissCW that's the thing to do. Don't worry, the cards aren't going to penalise honest questioning. True they're not impressed with being asked the same questions over and over again, but they actually welcome further, deeper, delving.