Bridget
One thing the Magician represents to me is the Male (as the High Priestess is the Female), so I think he could indicate a fear of men or masculinity. Maybe also fear of sex.
The Magician as a fear?
RussianSoul
Kenny said:
I am with Kenny. I was just about to post something very close to this, but he put it so well - I don't have to.
Umbrae
Men can be represented by the High Priestess and Women by the Magician.
The Magician and the High Priestess represent aspects. Often these aspects can be confused as gender. Many authors write that the Magician represents the male/aggressive and the High Priestess as the Female/passive. Such is shallow, and falls way short of the point of both images in my opinion (yes you are free to disagree).
Isisrana, it’s actually kind of funny – I just had this conversation with Wonderwoman. I should have had you move down a few seats…
So the Tarot was invented in the 1400’s. How was the Magician looked at then? Let’s use the TdM as an example. Let’s look at the word – Le Bateleur. What is a Bateleur? Essentially, the word translates to “A wandering (itinerant) juggler/comedian/storyteller.
The Magician or more correctly Le Bateleur, in its original context was a ‘Penn and Teller’ type magician, a juggler, sideshow barker, comedian, and not a ceremonial magician, or a person of power, commanding divine inspiration or power as he is currently viewed. That change occurred in 1909.
Le Bateleur is the smooth talker, the mountebank, the con man, and the snake oil sales man, the Traveling Salesman...also…and perhaps just as important – he has no roots, no town – a traveler. In the pre-war Russian language, there was no word for an adventurer. It was unheard of to leave your town, family, and responsibilities to wander for whatever reason. Such is the character of the Le Bateleur.
You will also notice, and mind you this is a question to which there is no answer: Le Bateleur and La Papesse are always in order – before the Empress or the Emperor and the Pope. Why are they so special in that time period? Would not the Emperor or Empress, and especially the Pope, come before a traveling juggler and a ‘pun’ of the so-called Pope Joan, Le Papesse. I believe there are things we don’t yet know concerning the history of Tarot.
Okay, so I think that the La Bateleur & La Papesse are about human nature – and not stations.
Tangential insertion - On the leg of the Magicians table in the Waite-Colman smith deck are the letters DIN. Perhaps on the reverse side are the letters NER.
The Magician/Bateleur is about measuring, qualifying, quantifying, that infernal intellectualization that essentially bogs us down, but we so love to justify our thinking process cuz we are trained to be oh so smart and have all the answers and never ever be wrong and don’t fail on the test and get a good review and beware run on sentences and don’t butcher the punkshoeashun or speling and what’s the ground speed of an African Swallow, wanna buy this car it was only owned once by a little ole schoolteacher from Belmont who only drove it on Sundays…
The High Priestess is about living in the heart rather than the head.
The High Priestess is about the Spiritual aspects of life – which cannot be boxed or measured or weighed or justified.
Traditionally Men don’t get the spiritual, we’re not trained on that but some of us develop it.
And it used to be that women didn’t get the word of the Magician…
Now there’s a lot of role reversal.
And folks lose balance – that’s the key. Being off balance.
If you live in the world of the Magician, you can intellectualize all you want, but you cannot intellectualize living from the heart.
If you live in the world of the High Priestess, you can live from the heart all you want, walk the pure spiritual path…and if you do so at the expense of the intellectual – you’re off balance.
Magician as fear?
Here’s an answer…Think about it. Wahahahahahahahaha. Sorry…
The Magician and the High Priestess represent aspects. Often these aspects can be confused as gender. Many authors write that the Magician represents the male/aggressive and the High Priestess as the Female/passive. Such is shallow, and falls way short of the point of both images in my opinion (yes you are free to disagree).
Isisrana, it’s actually kind of funny – I just had this conversation with Wonderwoman. I should have had you move down a few seats…
So the Tarot was invented in the 1400’s. How was the Magician looked at then? Let’s use the TdM as an example. Let’s look at the word – Le Bateleur. What is a Bateleur? Essentially, the word translates to “A wandering (itinerant) juggler/comedian/storyteller.
The Magician or more correctly Le Bateleur, in its original context was a ‘Penn and Teller’ type magician, a juggler, sideshow barker, comedian, and not a ceremonial magician, or a person of power, commanding divine inspiration or power as he is currently viewed. That change occurred in 1909.
Le Bateleur is the smooth talker, the mountebank, the con man, and the snake oil sales man, the Traveling Salesman...also…and perhaps just as important – he has no roots, no town – a traveler. In the pre-war Russian language, there was no word for an adventurer. It was unheard of to leave your town, family, and responsibilities to wander for whatever reason. Such is the character of the Le Bateleur.
You will also notice, and mind you this is a question to which there is no answer: Le Bateleur and La Papesse are always in order – before the Empress or the Emperor and the Pope. Why are they so special in that time period? Would not the Emperor or Empress, and especially the Pope, come before a traveling juggler and a ‘pun’ of the so-called Pope Joan, Le Papesse. I believe there are things we don’t yet know concerning the history of Tarot.
Okay, so I think that the La Bateleur & La Papesse are about human nature – and not stations.
Tangential insertion - On the leg of the Magicians table in the Waite-Colman smith deck are the letters DIN. Perhaps on the reverse side are the letters NER.
The Magician/Bateleur is about measuring, qualifying, quantifying, that infernal intellectualization that essentially bogs us down, but we so love to justify our thinking process cuz we are trained to be oh so smart and have all the answers and never ever be wrong and don’t fail on the test and get a good review and beware run on sentences and don’t butcher the punkshoeashun or speling and what’s the ground speed of an African Swallow, wanna buy this car it was only owned once by a little ole schoolteacher from Belmont who only drove it on Sundays…
The High Priestess is about living in the heart rather than the head.
The High Priestess is about the Spiritual aspects of life – which cannot be boxed or measured or weighed or justified.
Traditionally Men don’t get the spiritual, we’re not trained on that but some of us develop it.
And it used to be that women didn’t get the word of the Magician…
Now there’s a lot of role reversal.
And folks lose balance – that’s the key. Being off balance.
If you live in the world of the Magician, you can intellectualize all you want, but you cannot intellectualize living from the heart.
If you live in the world of the High Priestess, you can live from the heart all you want, walk the pure spiritual path…and if you do so at the expense of the intellectual – you’re off balance.
Magician as fear?
Here’s an answer…Think about it. Wahahahahahahahaha. Sorry…
Isisrana
Haha that was also very imformative.
I didnt go to the meeting yesterday because I couldnt figure out how to get there from Capitol Hill!
I will definetlly be there jUne29th with all my important and mundane questions.
I think it means he fears probbally all of those things. He also probablly fears or is what the magician is. Practical, not emotional.
I didnt go to the meeting yesterday because I couldnt figure out how to get there from Capitol Hill!
I will definetlly be there jUne29th with all my important and mundane questions.
I think it means he fears probbally all of those things. He also probablly fears or is what the magician is. Practical, not emotional.
CarolynTarot
The Magician as fear?
I think it is quite possible for the Magician to represent fear. The Magician can indicate lack of focus, low self-esteem, and issues surrounding one's ability to master the world around him. In some cases, the Magician can refer to one's inability to utilize their own skills. Imagine being in a situation that called for expertise in a certain area that was beyond your ability.
Best,
Carolyn
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I think it is quite possible for the Magician to represent fear. The Magician can indicate lack of focus, low self-esteem, and issues surrounding one's ability to master the world around him. In some cases, the Magician can refer to one's inability to utilize their own skills. Imagine being in a situation that called for expertise in a certain area that was beyond your ability.
Best,
Carolyn
url removed by moderator
pasara
To me the Magician representing fear would be fear of one's own power. It is scary to know that you and you alone control your own destiny, that all the tools are there at your disposal, because that means that you are responsible for yourself. there is no one else to blame if you fail. so better to not try than to fail. Some people are afraid to shine. They feel they are not worthy of their own brilliance. They fear if they pick up the wand, commune with the higher worlds, that life will be different/uncomfortable/out of control.
SunChariot
Isisrana said:
To me fearing being mislead of fooled by illusions might be more the Fool card.
Besides that,...the Magician to me is a card that tells the querent they have all that they need to handle the situation well deep within themselves. It is a card telling them not to worry about the situation as they have all that they need to handle it inside them (represented by the four suits that are usually shown in the card. Eg they have the intelligence to think out the best plan of action (Swords), the intuition to know what to do and when the time is right (Wands), the ability to create something new and effective of the situation (Wands), and the ability to meet and surpass their goals in this area (Pents, my view of Pents anyway.)
Sooooo your question about fear....if it were in a reading for me I would take it to mean that the querent fears (is afraid that) he/she does not have the inner strength to handle what is coming, It would be a feeling of insecurity and a doubt if his/her coping skills are adequate to handle what is coming. It is likely an unfounded fear even thuogh the card wouldn't specify, but it would just say there is a fear of that. Of not being able to adequately handle what is coming.
Babs
Ronia
Umbrae said:
Um... I'll have to disagree with this. I happen to come from this background (Slavic) and more - I have a degree in Slavic phylology. In addition, I studied eleven years ina Russian school. Which war exactly was this? The word "путешественник" is both traveller and adventurer as is the word "авантюрист". Naturally, the second word came from France but it came from French to many other languages too (just like tons of other words currently used in English). I know French too and the second word was widely used in Russia at the time of poets like Pushkin, for example. The first word is very very very old, it is a common word in many Slavic languages, it has deep roots in the far past, and as our folklore proves - it has existed and has been used for centuries. The path and the hero's journey was not only common but mandatory for young boys - initiation. Check out Vladimir Propp - Russian expert on fairy tales, ethnography and folklore. Of course, it was common to leave your village! Many young men were working in the towns and in the mansions of the masters, sometimes too far from their homes to see their families often.
I am utterly surprised where you read this about the way our people lived in the past. It is totally wrong and has nothing to do with the historical and literary inheritance which is widely accessible these days. There are even special words in Slavic languages for leaving your home place to work/live elsewhere.
Grizabella
I haven't read totally every post here, but I thought I'd comment anyway. (Famous last words, maybe.)
A Magician, it seems to me, also needs people to believe his sleight of hand tricks. If nobody buys it, then he's not going to be very successful. So I think, for me, that's another way I'd interpret the fear being represented by the Magician. Maybe there are things he's "sold" to people but he's afraid of being found out? That could certainly apply for some people when they come for a Tarot reading.
By "sold", I don't mean literally selling them something, I just mean that he's led them to believe by one means or another.
A Magician, it seems to me, also needs people to believe his sleight of hand tricks. If nobody buys it, then he's not going to be very successful. So I think, for me, that's another way I'd interpret the fear being represented by the Magician. Maybe there are things he's "sold" to people but he's afraid of being found out? That could certainly apply for some people when they come for a Tarot reading.
By "sold", I don't mean literally selling them something, I just mean that he's led them to believe by one means or another.
PAMUYA
The Magician is an "I can" card...so the fear would be that you can't
