Good Tower/Bad Tower

raeanne said:

Are you implying that “bad” surprises are Major Arcana, Tower, rock the world, shake things up, events but “good” surprises are Minor Arcana, everyday, run of the mill, ho-hum, Nine of Cups stuff?

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Well, no, not exactly Raeanne.

Do you agree that many of us relate to some cards more than others, and our personal experiences cause us to form stronger associations for some cards than others?

There are some Minor Arcana cards that are really "power cards" for me personally, and they can be as or more significant than some of the Trumps. The 9 of Cups is a very powerful card to me - when learning the book learnings, it's like "oh yeah, that's nice, the Wish card." But I see that card VERY rarely in readings, and when I DO see it, it's always good news, a pleasant surprise, etc. Just as good as a Tower is bad.

In GENERAL, yes I agree that the Trumps carrry more weight than the Minors, and IN GENERAL, cards have both positive and negative interpretations. But I think there are exceptions. The 10 of swords is NEVER a happy card to me. The 7 of swords will upset me more than many of the "usually negative" Trumps...

I have gained a lot of insight from this forum by seeing other peoples' associations and saying, "Wow, I never thought of it like that...." So I just wanted to share some of my own, in hopes that I might be able to provide that kind of different perspective for others.

Dangerdork,

Thanks for your input! I also like to see how other people view the cards. Sometimes I add their opinions into my own repertoire of meanings and sometimes I don’t. However, I try not to use words like "always" and "never". Life has shown me too many twists and turns to deal in absolutes. I have seen the Tower card show up for major, life changing "good" events so I was curious if anyone else had seen this.

Well... a day (or two) late, but I'll chime in with my $0.07 worth (inflation!)...

I generally view The Tower as representing some sort of major upheaval. Often of a rather unpleasant nature. Yes, the eventual outcome can be positive (as in being forced to relocate for a job, then finding - after you're settled in - that you've moved to a wonderful new place and are making tons of new friends). But the upheaval, the process of the change is not pleasant.

In extreme cases this upheaval can be disastrous, even violent. These are major, life-altering, emotion-tearing moments in a persons life. It is not something that I think of as representing pleasant circumstances. The eventual outcome might be very positive for the person (or people) involved, but the trip is going to be rough. This is not simply a card of change, such as winning the lottery - which would tend to bring immediate pleasure (though who knows what in the long run) - but of an unpleasant sort of change. A Tower of Babel sort of upheaval.

I tend to connect (in my own little mind) The Devil, The Tower, and The Star together. Perhaps my thoughts might be pertinent; The Devil shows how a person can become chained to something they don't necessarily want to be chained to - an addiction, an abusive relationship, or a pattern of destructive or criminal behavior. The Tower represents the upheaval that will probably be required to throw off those chains - withdrawls & counseling, divorce/leaving the relationship, arrest & time in jail for our behaviour. The Star represents the peace and healing which can come AFTER we have weathered the upheaval of throwing off those chains.

I hope this has been of some help...

[edited to correct my grammar ]

The Tower is, I agree, one of those chaotic cards that bring change in what we previously thought was solid - jobs, homes, relationships. My inner voice tells me this chaos is usually caused by someone/something else, an external factor over which yiou have no control, but its devastating effects are usually because we have failed to see or not wished to see some fundemental weakness as in; you knew he was having an affair, but you never thought he'd leave; you knew the factory was having troubles, but you never thought it would be you laid off; you knew the house overlooked the river, but you never thought it would flood type of things.
This card does offer a new beginning and a hard learned lesson; that you wont have your 'eyes wide shut' again.

allibee

tower / 9/11

First I want to state that this is not meant to hurt anybody´s feelings and my sympathies are with all who had to suffer a loss on or due 9/11. But do you really think that the tower applies to that date ? Of course, at first sight it seems more than obvious. Don´t you think that Death or Judgement would fit better ? I would say it is Judgement (of course a very very unfair, cowardish and evil judgement). What do you think ?

Hi all,

Thank you all for your comments. It seems that most folks see the Tower as "bad" events, even though the final outcome may be for the good. What card depicts those really, really, good things that change your life drastically? Is the 9 of Cups, a MINOR arcana card the only thing to show these life changing "good" things? Or, do we, as human being, just not learn as much from positive events as we do from the negative? (I'm beginning to believe that this is true and I don't like what that says about me, and people in general.) This seems to imply that we, as a species, are much more selfish than I had hoped for and we tend to take positive events for granted. The painful things, however, get our attention enough for us to have a Major arcana card to represent it.

I think there are definite positive major cards as well. For example, I always think of the Sun as a good card, although I do know that others see it a little differently. Also, the World is pretty darned positive. I do think that the meanings of these cards can shade into "darker" areas, but I also think that the bad cards have their good sides (as you pointed out with the Tower).

Kes

Re: tower / 9/11

lupo138 said:

But do you really think that the tower applies to that date ? Of course, at first sight it seems more than obvious. Don´t you think that Death or Judgement would fit better ? I would say it is Judgement (of course a very very unfair, cowardish and evil judgement). What do you think ?

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Death and Judgement are astrologically linked; Death is related to Scorpio, which is ruled by Pluto, which is in turn related to Judgement. I personally consider Pluto to be liberating force, and the relationships between the two cards reinforce this for me - death is the ultimate liberation.

Many people think the Tower is related to Mars - aggresion/hubris leading to a downfall - but I don't feel that. I think the Tower relates to Uranus. It is also a liberating planet, but whereas Pluto will liberate powerfully, as if barriers against liberation are nonexistant, Uranus liberates unexpectedly, destroying those barriers. Finally, Mars is usually considered a personal planet, affecting different individuals in different ways. Uranus is a generational planet whose influences are felt across the board regardless of differences. And 9/11 will definitely affect my entire generation.

Perhaps you are seeing the event from the point of veiw of the victims. You're very compassionate.

@JC

thank you for sharing your views and knowledge.

I was doing a reading for a friend last week and the Tower card came up in her "pressent situation" position. (I was using my Legend, Arthurian Tarot Deck. The Tower card in this deck has two dragons tearing down the tower) At first I groaned to myself and just continued laying out the cards. Then when I got to the card in the reading all I could see was this red dragon. This powerful, yet beautiful, red dragon. I knew immediately that the red dragon was my friend. That she was in the process of tearing down the tower around her to bring about changes that she needed and wanted.

This was one reading that the Tower card was very meaningful and even positive.

Dianne