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I read RWS, should I ignore Thoth meanings

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyros View Post
Well, I guess I misunderstood your questions then, I apologize. And in a forum dedicated to the Thoth and where Thelemites do frequent, it would make sense to have it there. In the Golden Dawn guidelines I quoted a GD motto. There is no posing.
My sincere apologies for that last post. I have never thought of you as a poseur, (that really was about the person in the anecdote mentioned). I was upset and posted without realising the implication. Or using the word bogus. That was uncalled for.
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6 of Swords


I think there is great value in studying a deck deeply and in light of the creator(s) of the deck. There are many things you'll miss otherwise. I often took a year or more to focus almost entirely on studying and teaching Tarot from the pov of one particular deck. Additionally, I've studied some decks from teachers who had idiosyncratic views - if I respected their teachings - for instance, Sallie Nichols' Jungian approach to the Marseilles Majors.

Not all decks are worthy of this depth of study but I'd say the RWS, Thoth and GD system are, partly because you will learn things that can be applied to other decks and the reading process itself. Similarly the Wirth book and deck (Majors only; Marseilles-inspired) are incredibly valuable.

Trying to apply the concepts of RWS to Thoth and vice-versa is probably not a good way to start out. However, eventually a search for the similarities and contrasts from one to another can be immensely valuable— if, and only if, you are able to integrate and hold to ambiguity and uncertainty without too great a conflict. Flexibility and versatility is essential.

Zephyros found similarities in the RWS and Thoth 6 of Swords. I also look to the GD system and the sources that influenced all of them (Etteilla, Chambers, etc.) for a similar understanding of the 6 of Swords.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyros View Post
A journey, whether to or from somewhere, implies a certain perspective that comes from being the "Lord of Earned Success," the Golden Dawn title for the card. But success doesn't have to be good, and Crowley hit the mark with "Science," which implies empirical data learned from experience. An experiment can fail and still successfully be used to gain knowledge on a certain subject. If you're testing a drug on people and it does not treat the disease you're trying to cure, the success is in the knowledge that it doesn't. There's no failure.
GD meanings for the 6 of Swords include: "Earned success. Labor. Work. Journey by water. Changing work or location. Obtaining success by commanding it; by effort and striving." (Success not by luck, but by effort.)

Crowley called it Science, which I take as both objectivity (gaining distance from your subject) and as empirical testing [the scientific journey - err, process].

It is Mercury in Aquarius that someone (probably Crowley?) identified as Genius and versatility.

The RWS deck shows the people getting distance from a difficult situation (gaining in objectivity and detachment). It is more as if they are setting out on the process of obtaining a clearer perspective, more ordered thinking.

In the GD-system, the 6s are the height of each suit. In Swords - logical, rational thinking, mental clarity, organized perspectives, a command of one's methodologies.

If you want to see the 6 of Swords in action, then watch the video of the CERN project and the announcement of the proof of the Higgs-Boson particle - a long journey for those who first theorized it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teheuti View Post
Zephyros found similarities in the RWS and Thoth 6 of Swords. I also look to the GD system and the sources that influenced all of them (Etteilla, Chambers, etc.) for a similar understanding of the 6 of Swords.



GD meanings for the 6 of Swords include: "Earned success. Labor. Work. Journey by water. Changing work or location. Obtaining success by commanding it; by effort and striving." (Success not by luck, but by effort.)

Crowley called it Science, which I take as both objectivity (gaining distance from your subject) and as empirical testing [the scientific journey - err, process].

It is Mercury in Aquarius that someone (probably Crowley?) identified as Genius and versatility.

The RWS deck shows the people getting distance from a difficult situation (gaining in objectivity and detachment). It is more as if they are setting out on the process of obtaining a clearer perspective, more ordered thinking.

In the GD-system, the 6s are the height of each suit. In Swords - logical, rational thinking, mental clarity, organized perspectives, a command of one's methodologies.

If you want to see the 6 of Swords in action, then watch the video of the CERN project and the announcement of the proof of the Higgs-Boson particle - a long journey for those who first theorized it.
Thanks, Mary. That gives me a little more to chew on in my lengthy inner debate over the RWS 6 of Swords. The conundrum for me has always been whether the boat is "coming or going," whether it's showing "imminent arrival" or "recent departure." In qabalistic terms, the 5 of Swords is the upset that needs to be left behind, and the 6 of Swords is a momentary return to balance, so it doesn't seem reasonable that the boat is already leaving that safe haven. The "journey by water" has always seemed figurative to me; it could be more about the "passage" than the "destination." Despite the dour appearance of the passangers, it suggests a "voyage of discovery" rather than the relief anticipated upon arrival. This squares with my understanding of Crowley's title "Science."
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