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Princess as the Throne for the Ace

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barleywine View Post
Here's what I have so far. Although the analogy is imperfect (the dynamics and "current flow" are atypical) it suggests the idea behind an electrical generator, with its stator, rotor and shaft. The "rotor" (Princess) picks up the "current" from the "stator" (the associated Prince in the orbital "ring") and concentrates it, delivering it to the "shaft" (Ace) for transmission to the "battery" (world of matter). A metaphysical "induction coil" is another thought, with the Knight/Queen/Prince ring as the "outer winding" and the Princess as the "inner winding", while the Ace acts as the "core."

To get around the complexity involved in showing a fully 3D structure, I did this as a "vertical slice" showing the single central degree (15 Aquarius) within the Princess of Sword's quadrant. The picture also makes me think of a pennant on a flagstaff that rotates through 360 degress of the sphere. But I like the "electrical generator" idea better since it more fully expresses how I see the dynamic.

Note that I left out the Major Arcana this time around, but will examine how to best fit them in at the next (hopefully "prettier") iteration.

ETA: In retrospect, that "orbital ring" should really be depicted as a "stacked" three-tiered design (Knight/Queen/Prince in descending order), similar to the Hierophant's crown and scepter in the RWS image. That way, all 12 of the remaining court cards could be loaded into the 360 degree model.
.... and the whole of the Southern celestial sphere is left out ? (similar to the GD model )
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
.... and the whole of the Southern celestial sphere is left out ? (similar to the GD model )
Yes, because I have absolutely no idea what it would look like. Care to contribute?
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It would be interesting to know Nick Farrell's attitude toward the northern hemisphere bias. Today I'm too lazy to do a search.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barleywine View Post
Yes, because I have absolutely no idea what it would look like. Care to contribute?
Ummmm .... I already did ... for pages and pages ... back in the thread and in others on this topic. I changed the model to be more suitable to tarot for using the cards (the whole deck), and the whole sphere (celestial and terrestrial ) . Instead of this model which uses some of the deck to explain the ToL projected into a Sphere , using the celestial sphere and and SOME cards from the deck to explain the Kabbalistic concept.

To use this model is asking for trubs IMO ... especially as it is a 'pre-curser' to the next GD bit ' The Laws of the Convolution of the Forces ' ...... no, dont go there !

IMO , again, if you want a TAROT model , this aint it . AS I said, AC threw it in at the beginning of Book of Thoth, without the right qualifier and then it got picked up as relevant to Tarot .... people have been trying to nut it out since . The way to nut it out is to look at where it sits in the GD corpus and understand it from its original placement and context.

I rleady said all this before in the thread earlier ... thats why I said , I have said enough.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
IMO , again, if you want a TAROT model , this aint it . AS I said, AC threw it in at the beginning of Book of Thoth, without the right qualifier and then it got picked up as relevant to Tarot .... people have been trying to nut it out since . The way to nut it out is to look at where it sits in the GD corpus and understand it from its original placement and context.

I rleady said all this before in the thread earlier ... thats why I said , I have said enough.
Fair enough, but I'm a visual type. Did you ever produce a diagramatic view of what you think the correct model would look like from a Southern Hemisphere perspective? I really need the "Yahoo Serious" version (like the sly opening scene of one of his movies - maybe "Young Einstein" or "Reckless Kelly" - with the upside-down coastline viewed from an incoming plane windshield) to help me conceptualize. All of our models are Northern-Hemisphere-biased only because that was the terrestrial vantage point of the civilizations that developed all of this stuff. Doesn't make it right (or comprehensive) in the big picture, of course, but I've never seen a pictorial model in any of the astrological literature, only words - and vague ones at best.

The whole concept of trying to nut out "The One and Only True and Verified Cosmological Correspondence" between tarot and astrology has always seemed like a bit of what used to be called a "snipe hunt" anyway. Just because both of them are there doesn't mean they have to be synthesized. But it does make for an engaging mental exercise (or time-waster, take your pick.)
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How about this?

Let the domain of each Princess be a 90 lune from the north celestial pole to the south celestial pole, centered on the appropriate fixed sign. If you don't want to overlap the domains of the other court cards, let them have a spherical segment about the celestial equator.

This shows the domain of a Princess:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
How about this?

Let the domain of each Princess be a 90 lune from the north celestial pole to the south celestial pole, centered on the appropriate fixed sign. If you don't want to overlap the domains of the other court cards, let them have a spherical segment about the celestial equator.

This shows the domain of a Princess:
Yes, that's pretty much how I envisioned an extension of my model, but I'm uncertain how to "mirror" all of the other stuff. I only kept it to the plane of a single degree for convenience since I wanted to lay all of the other correspondences in without too much visual clutter. But regarding the zodiacal "flow" of everything, I've been led to believe that there are some considerations that have to be addressed. I wonder if any texts have been written solely from a Southern Hemisphere perspective.
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I don't understand why there is all that confusion? Regardie's Golden Dawn material explains plainly (in volume 9 in the edition The Portable Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic, p. 57*):

Quote:
The Four Knaves [a.k a. Princesses] rule the Celestial Heavens from the North Pole of the Zodiac to the 45 of Latitude North of the Ecliptic. They form the Thrones of the Four Aces, who rule in Kether. The Four Kings, 4 Queens, 4 Knights rule the Celestial Heavens from the 45 of North Latitude down to the Ecliptic. The 12 Tarot Keys attributed to the 12 Signs of the Zodiac rule the Celestial Heavens from the Ecliptic down to the 45 of South Latitude. The 36 smaller cards of the Suits (from 2 to 10) rule the Celestial Heavens from the 45 South of the Ecliptic down to the South Pole, or the Malkuth place therein.
All these correspond with certain constellations and parts thereof. Regarding the Four Aces in Kether, we find this summary on p. 68:

Quote:
The Throne of the Ace of Cups is the head of Draco.
The Throne of the Ace of Swords is the fore part of the body.
The Throne of the Ace of Pentacles is the hind part of the body.
The Throne of the Ace of Wands is the tail of Draco.
It should also be in the "black brick"; I will look for it there if somebody still needs help.

Questions, anybody?

* The chapter is called "The Tree of Life as Projected in a Solid Sphere" - doesn't Ravenest refer to it above?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sternbach View Post
I don't understand why there is all that confusion? Regardie's Golden Dawn material explains plainly (in volume 9 in the edition The Portable Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic, p. 57*):



All these correspond with certain constellations and parts thereof. Regarding the Four Aces in Kether, we find this summary on p. 68:



It should also be in the "black brick"; I will look for it there if somebody still needs help.

Questions, anybody?

* The chapter is called "The Tree of Life as Projected in a Solid Sphere" - doesn't Ravenest refer to it above?
We're still trying to reach consensus on what a "Throne" is and how it functions. I think I'm going to stick with my epiphany that the Ace is like a "nipple" on the teat of the Princess that dispenses its nourishment into the phenomenal world. The Regardie quote does answer all my structural question by distributing all of the rulerships, but it seems more like an exercise in quilt-making than a practical tool for anything in particular.

ETA: I take that back. I might see it being useful in conjunction with AstroCartography. I do have the Falcon Press "brick" (mine is red leather, not black) and I've been through that section a few times, but it's significance has been largely lost on me.
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That does seem to clear it all up Michael, thank you.
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