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How does Kabbalah fit in with the Tarot....

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Tarot has nothing to do with Kaballah. Both the Golden Dawn and Crowley had to make major changes to the cards and their meanings in order to make them fit to a Kaballistic viewpoint. Aside from them, other authors assign different Kaballistic attributes to the cards, and each writer disagrees from the other.

If you want to study authentic Tarot, pick up a Marsailles deck and read the cards. It really is that simple.
Top   #11
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The Lost Book


Make no mistake: there is a cipher and there are those who would hide it from you. The "occultist" tradition in Tarot/Qabala has been a search for lost knowledge - to decipher a code that conceals the wisdom and science of the Ancients. From de Gébelin to Etteilla to Crowley to right now.

I'll admit, most "revisionists" have no idea that there is even a code at all and are simply reinventing the Qabala Tree or the Tarot for their own commercial or fanciful ends. And until you "solve" the Tarot you will have no idea what I am writing about when I say "beware of revisionists who would scramble the code."

The various fraternal orders charged with keeping this secret want to keep it just that - a secret. You might say that everyone in the craft learned a hard lesson from the martyrdom of Pythagoras: that earthlings unprepared for this knowledge may want to burn down your house and kill all your friends.

But, as we are coming very close to the culmination of the Great Work, this is a risk we shall have to take.
Top   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yygdrasilian
Make no mistake: there is a cipher and there are those who would hide it from you. The "occultist" tradition in Tarot/Qabala has been a search for lost knowledge - to decipher a code that conceals the wisdom and science of the Ancients. From de Gébelin to Etteilla to Crowley to right now.

I'll admit, most "revisionists" have no idea that there is even a code at all and are simply reinventing the Qabala Tree or the Tarot for their own commercial or fanciful ends. And until you "solve" the Tarot you will have no idea what I am writing about when I say "beware of revisionists who would scramble the code."

The various fraternal orders charged with keeping this secret want to keep it just that - a secret. You might say that everyone in the craft learned a hard lesson from the martyrdom of Pythagoras: that earthlings unprepared for this knowledge may want to burn down your house and kill all your friends.

But, as we are coming very close to the culmination of the Great Work, this is a risk we shall have to take.
So why not bestow your great wisdom on those who would learn but lack the "proper" direction? You can't say things like "beware the revisionists" and "you have no idea what I'm talking about unless you solve the Tarot" without giving any further details and expect it to have any meaning whatsoever.

This is exactly what I was talking about in my previous post. A post like this does absolutely no good to anyone - you can't even beware of what you can't identify, and it looks like you're not willing to tell anyone what specifically to avoid, so you've effectively said absolutely nothing. You've used a bunch of pompous words to say, quite literally, nothing.

Why even bother to post it publicly if no one but those in your order would understand it? That seems like quite a waste of time and typing...unless of course you're trying to appear somehow "more enlightened" than the rest of us for the purpose of gratifying your ego.

Would you care to elaborate on your dire warnings and the ancient wisdom with which you've been gifted so that, at the bare minimum, others can make an informed choice about which "revisionists" to avoid and how to properly pursue the solution to the ancient cipher?
Top   #13
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Yygdrasilian 
Latibulum


If you want to learn how to "solve" the Tarot read: "Apples Anyone?" in the forum:

Tarot History & Iconography: Thoth Tarot
Top   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yygdrasilian
Make no mistake: there is a cipher and there are those who would hide it from you. The "occultist" tradition in Tarot/Qabala has been a search for lost knowledge - to decipher a code that conceals the wisdom and science of the Ancients. From de Gébelin to Etteilla to Crowley to right now.
WHERE OH WERE is Robert Anton Wilson when you need him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yygdrasilian
If you want to learn how to "solve" the Tarot read: "Apples Anyone?" in the forum:

Tarot History & Iconography: Thoth Tarot
Despite what the Crowleyites whould have you believe, the Thoth Tarot IS a revisionist deck -- and probably farther from the Tarot as it was originally conceived than most decks out there.

There is no ancient wisdom concealed in this deck -- it's most definitely 20th century Kabbalah/Esotericism at its peak.
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Praxis


Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Stanton
Despite what the Crowleyites whould have you believe, the Thoth Tarot IS a revisionist deck -- and probably farther from the Tarot as it was originally conceived than most decks out there.

There is no ancient wisdom concealed in this deck -- it's most definitely 20th century Kabbalah/Esotericism at its peak.

Scoff if you wish - but to pass such a judgement without having found the stone yourself will only push it further from you.

Until you work through the constellations yourself and solve the Tarot you'll never be able to resurrect the Hanged Man. There is absolutely no reason to be intimidated by a little code breaking. In fact, you'll be surprised how much of this story you already know. The Hidden Masters have been dropping clues for millennia. And the pieces do fit.

To point at that which challenges your perspective and cry 'Blasphemy! Heretic!" without ever attempting to understand it? ... well, that's just plain superstitious. And we all know where that goes - especially regarding we who venerate the Tree of Life.

Trust me, Crowley figured something out - something he may not even been aware of. Something of central importance to the human experience. It is THE Book of Thoth. But don't take my word for it. Get crackin.'

Apples Anyone?

Oh, Yes! And a most respectful hats off to RAW.
Mahalo.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yygdrasilian
Scoff if you wish - but to pass such a judgement without having found the stone yourself will only push it further from you.
Are you wilfully ignoring requests to clarify your deliberately abstruse postings? This forum is not intended as a showroom for individual egos; your pointless goadings give the impression that you crave attention, nothing more. If I may quote another newcomer to AT, who has been welcomed because of his open nature:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strategeus
A post like this does absolutely no good to anyone - you can't even beware of what you can't identify, and it looks like you're not willing to tell anyone what specifically to avoid, so you've effectively said absolutely nothing. You've used a bunch of pompous words to say, quite literally, nothing.
If you have something to contribute to our learning, please post it. It seems that you believe you have great knowledge of these traditions; we cannot believe that you do until you post something of value. We are eager to hear new knowledge from any quarter, freely shared in the spirit of openness; we welcome "fresh meat", as it were

If, however, you are unwilling to share your knowledge for reasons of secrecy (at best) or sheer superiority and bloody-mindedness (at worst) then please cease and desist.

\m/ Kat
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Yygdrasilian's theories can be found here:

http://www.book-of-thoth.com/ftopict-18743.html

IMHO, more esoteric claptrap that doesn't lead anywhere. This is most definitely not the wisdom of the ancients, but yet more arcana that we may, if we wish, read into iconographies of the past.

I really wish that one of the esoteric "thinkers" would present actual evidence for what they believe, rather than lay out a vast web of speculation -- and then expect us to swallow it as evidence of some ancient truth.

It's interesting, no doubt. But call it what it is -- a theory, speculation, an idea. It only becomes truth when you can prove it. And it can only be an ancient truth if it is, well, ancient.

It must also be said that around the time of the Tarot's emergence in Italy, the Kabbalah was not (and is still not) codified. Versions of the Tree of Life exist with 22, 24 and 28 paths. The version which most occultists draw from nowadays is the Golden Dawn's version -- certainly not authentic Jewish Kabbalah, and most certainly not ancient.
Top   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strategeus
This post is for those concerned about revisionists, the "true" Kabbalah, and the ancientness thereof.
Agreed! At least as far as I'm knowledgeable enough to agree.

Revisionism is simply revising a system to fit one's needs. It seems to me that nearly anyone who writes about a topic does that to some degree. Otherwise why wouldn't they simply recommend another's work or quote them directly and be done with it? The exception would be writing a simpler explanation that beginners can more easily understand and begin to get a handle on the topic before reading the more complex version. That's not revisionism, it's teaching.

Yygdrasilian, I read your post, "Apples Anyone?" and I don't see how that explains anything in response to Ange's question. Not only that, but your first post in that thread was gibberish to me, lacking as it was in any explanation of what you were talking about.

I also don't see how you can call Crowley less of a revisionist than any of the others mentioned in this thread. Little as I know about Kabbalah, I feel confident in saying that Crowley didn't invent Kabbalah. As Greg Stanton said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Stanton
It's interesting, no doubt. But call it what it is -- a theory, speculation, an idea. It only becomes truth when you can prove it. And it can only be an ancient truth if it is, well, ancient.
It seems to me, Yygdrasilian, that your statements are muddying (and may even be intended to muddy) the waters of a thread that is an honest inquiry by someone new to the topic and deserves honest, open answers rather than cryptic "too mysterious and secret to tell you" responses. You didn't even bother to post a link to your thread, which would've been easy enough.

Nevada
Top   #19
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Yygdrasilian 
Quicksilver


I've no wish to goad, or belittle, or demean anyone. It's just that Crowley's Thoth deck is a specific type of riddle with a specific solution.

I suspect its origins are as a lateral thinking puzzle, devised by the Ancients, for unlocking advanced capabilities of human awareness with number/symbol formulas that require both right & left brain "thinking" to solve. Something learned at advanced grades in the ancient mystery schools.

It describes, specifically, Spirit's journey through the Qabala Tree and is, thus, the subject of this thread.

If I choose not to reveal all, it is because I don't want to spoil it for you.

Already I've posted enough information that anyone with a fair knowledge of, say, Greek, Hebrew, or Egyptian mythology or "sacred" geometry could work it out.

I figured here, of all places - at a Tarot forum website - there would be a good chance of being able to communicate this to others who would actually understand it. And I still believe that.

I've no commercial concern in this thing. I just happen to remember it in time. And you will too.

But don't take my word for it.
ask Thoth.
Top   #20




 


 


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