I am completely new to Lenormand

Teheuti

ETA: I am reading my tarot now, and loving my tarot cards even more by applying the lenormand reading method. :) yes my tarot cards have been converted to lenormand, please dont beat me, Once I figured out the lenormand method, its the only way I read my tarot cards now.
It's true that some of the 19th century techniques for reading the Tarot (still used by many today) are more similar to old fashioned cartomancy and Lenormand than to a modern approach to Tarot. I didn't like Dorothy Kelly's book, but that's because my way of reading and using Tarot is so different. Personally, I like Lenormand because it gives me such a different way to read. I don't want Tarot and Lenormand to be simply two versions of the same thing.

So, hopefully this discussion will help people become clearer about what they want from each -
1) Tarot and Lenormand that are read in much the same way (two iterations of the same thing), or
2) two totally different approaches to reading cards - each providing something the other doesn't?
 

andybc

If you are starting out, do not try and remember all the progressed meanings which you’ll see listed copiously in books (i.e. Letter telephone calls or Ring contracts), just learn and remember the cards’ most basic construct definitions i.e. Cavalier news from afar or near depending on its proximity to the significator, Clouds trouble and misfortune worse if to the right et cetera.

Then learn the themes i.e. traditionally the relationship cards are the Heart, Ring and Anchor, whereas business and career is Ship, Moon and Anchor, et cetera. This allows you to see topics in a reading when several that belong to a grouping appear.

When these are committed to memory work on combining cards and seeing how two cards together can be linked i.e. Cavalier – Clouds might be news that causes a lot of problems or is upsetting, whereas Cavalier – Whips could be news that causes arguments in the home. Then three.

Once you know all these, you can start working on the progressed meanings. Different readers have attached different progressions of the cards’ original definitions, and thus it’s often worth sticking to one reader's take, as there can be minor differences or complete contradictions and sometimes reinventions of cards’ meanings.

Personally, whilst I do read Tarot by combinations, multiples, triples et cetera. it's worth remembering Lenormand really is actually ONE way of reading 36 German/Swiss playing cards not a deck or even meanings. This is the same way as Grand Etteilla is one way of reading a Tarot playing card pack.

You can follow this method or you can just use the cards anyway you want. There is a difference between reading Lenormand and just using a Lenormand pack.
 

Seraphina

I have started learning with just a couple of the main keywords and I am so pleased you have mentioned about grouping, I am going to begin doing that. I want to learn Lenormand as it is supposed to be, I don't want to use my deck like I would Tarot or as an oracle... I have many of them, I want to learn something new and different. Thanks for the advice, very much appreciated by this newbie!

You say about sticking with one particular readers take as you begin to progress, I know that that is important, I certainly don't want to make my learning difficult or get confused.. In your opinion who would you suggest as to the best readers to follow, I have Rana George's book, but there are a couple of interpretations I'm not comfortable with, only minor ones, so I'm not too sure if I can mix different readers takes on a card and come up with one system I'm happy with, if that makes sense?
I know I could do whatever I like really lol, just need more expert advice and help to follow the Lenormand tradition




andybc said:
You can follow this method or you can just use the cards anyway you want. There is a difference between reading Lenormand and just using a Lenormand pack.

I want to follow this method!

Seraphina
 

andybc

I have started learning with just a couple of the main keywords and I am so pleased you have mentioned about grouping, I am going to begin doing that. I want to learn Lenormand as it is supposed to be, I don't want to use my deck like I would Tarot or as an oracle... I have many of them, I want to learn something new and different. Thanks for the advice, very much appreciated by this newbie!

You say about sticking with one particular readers take as you begin to progress, I know that that is important, I certainly don't want to make my learning difficult or get confused.. In your opinion who would you suggest as to the best readers to follow, I have Rana George's book, but there are a couple of interpretations I'm not comfortable with, only minor ones, so I'm not too sure if I can mix different readers takes on a card and come up with one system I'm happy with, if that makes sense?
I know I could do whatever I like really lol, just need more expert advice and help to follow the Lenormand tradition






I want to follow this method!

Seraphina

I'm glad you do Seraphina. It's an amazing method :)

The trouble with comparing readers is that there are several lawyers to compare – from card meanings (Rana’s are most similar to Colette Silvestre who writes in French, sorry), interpretation (Rana’s are fairly close to some of Erna Droesbeke's i.e. cross of destiny/box spread), and general thoughts and usage (Caitlín Matthews).

So without knowing what you particularly don’t gel with, it’s a stab in the dark. You get the best out of Rana’s book on the second reading – she has followed a growing trend in putting meanings under headers, which I don’t think help beginners. IMHO you’re best to learn the most basic definitions first, even if you have to put the book aside and focus on the Philippe Lenormand sheet first.

I find have tended to tell people that Rana’s book goes very well with Caitlín Matthews’ Enchanted Lenormand. But again that is not because of their meanings but the thoughts and how they are explained.

In terms of meanings though, Caitlín’s are closer to those outlined in my book aside from one or two cards; but the methods I use in the book are quite different (I believe Caitlín’s next book will touch on proximity). Rana touches on some of the things I do, but not beyond a paragraph or two. Aside from myself I don't of anyone who went into themes in any detail apart from Iris Treppner.
 

Seraphina

So without knowing what you particularly don’t gel with, it’s a stab in the dark. You get the best out of Rana’s book on the second reading – she has followed a growing trend in putting meanings under headers, which I don’t think help beginners. IMHO you’re best to learn the most basic definitions first, even if you have to put the book aside and focus on the Philippe Lenormand sheet first.

I find have tended to tell people that Rana’s book goes very well with Caitlín Matthews’ Enchanted Lenormand. But again that is not because of their meanings but the thoughts and how they are explained.

Being still new to Lenormand I'm still learning the basic meanings and trying out different combinations and trying to understand the Lenormand language, I'm doing two and three card layouts, I haven't tackled anything bigger as I feel I need to be able to understand each cards meanings properly first... So it's the meanings that I need to get right and feel comfortable with...

I have read most of Rana's book and at first I found it totally amazing, basically a wealth of information that I thought for me as a complete novice on Lenormand was just what I needed and I still think it's an excellent book, but by reading all of it I feel overloaded with so many different variations of each of the cards meanings, she does say to use basic keywords, but I find that she has so much info and variations for each card that I'm not sure which bits to use!

I'm not sure about using the fox as a work card, and I'm not sure if she is saying in her book that the Fish card is about money or whether the Bear card is to do with finances aswell, both aspects are mentioned as are other meanings for those two cards in her system..

For Lilies she says the main keyword is "Older" and she says it stands for maturity, then she says it also denotes happiness and protection.... So many possible meanings... It gets confusing for me personally... Perhaps I should just take from the book what feels right to me as most of the info is very good... There's just SO much of it!

I have Caitlin's enchanted Lenormand deck and to be honest I don't like it, I don't like the name changes or the way the images are portrayed in those orbs, I must admit I have not read the accompanying book.

I will do as you suggest and begin with the basic definitions first and build up from there...

There are so many Lenormand teachers and readers out there and it seems some of them do things differently, which is their right of course, but it just makes it harder for us beginners to chose who to follow when we are starting out!
I haven't seen your book.. Hmm, I think I ought to check that out..
 

Teheuti

I feel overloaded with so many different variations of each of the cards meanings, she does say to use basic keywords, but I find that she has so much info and variations for each card that I'm not sure which bits to use!
Check out a couple of on-line sources, along with Rana's book, and write down in your own notebook, only the main two or three nouns that you find for each card. Augment them with two adjectives. Use just these few concepts for each card for several months. Slowly add new words to your list *as they make sense to you.*

I'm not sure if she is saying in her book that the Fish card is about money or whether the Bear card is to do with finances aswell, both aspects are mentioned as are other meanings for those two cards in her system..
There is some overlap among cards which helps when you are looking at a Grand Tableau, for instance, because finances might be applicable in more than one area. Fish tends to be more fluid money - income and outflow. Bear tends to be stored resources - investments and savings, etc. However, secondary meanings (like finances for Bear) usually only come up when you are asking specifically about your finances. Otherwise, go with the main meaning - someone strong and powerful who with positive cards will aid you, but, who with negative cards near, can become envious or jealous.
 

Nina*

There is some overlap among cards which helps when you are looking at a Grand Tableau, for instance, because finances might be applicable in more than one area. Fish tends to be more fluid money - income and outflow. Bear tends to be stored resources - investments and savings, etc. However, secondary meanings (like finances for Bear) usually only come up when you are asking specifically about your finances. Otherwise, go with the main meaning - someone strong and powerful who with positive cards will aid you, but, who with negative cards near, can become envious or jealous.

This is kind of what gets me... So with negative cards around there's just no possibility of someone strong who will aid me in my misery?
This is where, to me, the ''rules'' are too stiff.
 

andybc

Being still new to Lenormand I'm still learning the basic meanings and trying out different combinations and trying to understand the Lenormand language, I'm doing two and three card layouts, I haven't tackled anything bigger as I feel I need to be able to understand each cards meanings properly first... So it's the meanings that I need to get right and feel comfortable with...

I have read most of Rana's book and at first I found it totally amazing, basically a wealth of information that I thought for me as a complete novice on Lenormand was just what I needed and I still think it's an excellent book, but by reading all of it I feel overloaded with so many different variations of each of the cards meanings, she does say to use basic keywords, but I find that she has so much info and variations for each card that I'm not sure which bits to use!

I'm not sure about using the fox as a work card, and I'm not sure if she is saying in her book that the Fish card is about money or whether the Bear card is to do with finances aswell, both aspects are mentioned as are other meanings for those two cards in her system..

For Lilies she says the main keyword is "Older" and she says it stands for maturity, then she says it also denotes happiness and protection.... So many possible meanings... It gets confusing for me personally... Perhaps I should just take from the book what feels right to me as most of the info is very good... There's just SO much of it!

I have Caitlin's enchanted Lenormand deck and to be honest I don't like it, I don't like the name changes or the way the images are portrayed in those orbs, I must admit I have not read the accompanying book.

I will do as you suggest and begin with the basic definitions first and build up from there...

There are so many Lenormand teachers and readers out there and it seems some of them do things differently, which is their right of course, but it just makes it harder for us beginners to chose who to follow when we are starting out!
I haven't seen your book.. Hmm, I think I ought to check that out..

Rana’s meanings are influenced by or reflective of a few popular authors and teachers (mostly Belgium and France) who published books in French in the latter half of the last century. She got her cards off a French man and Lebanon had strong ties with France.

Not all readers in either of those countries however take the Fox for work; I know several who don’t. The trouble with taking it as work is you have to then start to wonder is it “work” or is cunning and deceit? Most of the time the Fox just appears to say something is ‘wrong’.

So if you don’t feel comfortable with these, you do not need to use it – personally I use the Moon and Anchor, and also the Ship in certain cases, as these cards are associated with areas common to employment and enterprise.

Older is not specifically traditional with the Lilies but is popular, again in those books/takes that are similar to Rana’s, but for me most of the time it just happiness. In the original suits Spades are Lilies which are not associated with ‘older’ people.

Whilst I don’t say it’s a ‘sex’ card it can show that, as it’s your progeny and shows virtue, too. Like the House the Lilies has a meaning that is affected by being above or below the significator.

The Bear is a sign of good fortune, which is often monetary but can be other things (such good looks in some contexts), and when it’s with bad cards (such as the Clouds, Fox, Whips) it will also show envy and jealousy over these and the need to be careful.

So it’s more the benefits of wealth and/or status, comfort if you will, rather than cash flow, which is more the Fish which is the card closest to a modern “salary”. The Ship, Fish and Anchor all originally meant stuff to do with trade and wealth and are thus a trio ‘money’ cards showing opportunities to make money, income, financial security respectively.

You may find it easier to work off the Philippe Lenormand sheet and internalise that. Then you could go through Rana or Caitlín’s books and just focus on the methods. Caitlín’s name changes won’t be a problem when you know the traditional names ;) but a few traditional decks do have a broom on the Whips/Birch Rod card.

Check out a couple of on-line sources, along with Rana's book, and write down in your own notebook, only the main two or three nouns that you find for each card. Augment them with two adjectives. Use just these few concepts for each card for several months. Slowly add new words to your list *as they make sense to you.*

Good advice Mary.

This is kind of what gets me... So with negative cards around there's just no possibility of someone strong who will aid me in my misery?
This is where, to me, the ''rules'' are too stiff.

No, that’s not true. When you get bad cards around the Bear you need to be careful of whom you rely on, as often there is an unwillingness to help you from whomever the Bear signifies due to ill-feeling. That’s not stiff that is just the Bear’s meanings.

This can be mitigated by the Bouquet, Child, and Dog being near the significator and the House being with good cards. The rules are not stiff, they are actually quite fluid, and very much based on multiple testimonies but as with everything it has basic parameters which is what keeps it being what it is – Lenormand.
 

Lee

This is kind of what gets me... So with negative cards around there's just no possibility of someone strong who will aid me in my misery?
This is where, to me, the ''rules'' are too stiff.
I don't mean to speak for Mary, but I don't think she meant that at all. I think she's just saying that most of the cards have a range of meanings, and in a given reading you would choose the meaning for a card based on the context of the question and associated cards (i.e. adjacent, by distance, or whatever) in the spread.

The "rules" will of necessity sound stiff when you write them out, but, as andybc says in his post, the reading process is much more fluid and flexible. If there is a negative card, it doesn't mean there's automatically "no possibility" of assistance. You need to judge each case by the cards that come up and how they relate to each other.