working with guides or going solo.

JackofWands

ravenest said:
I take JackofWands comment : " within the community of people who work with guides, there's no consensus regarding what those guides are " as more indicative of the modern 'spirit guides' movement than its relationship to tarot. It is certainly much newer than Tarot (in this 'spirit-guides' form ).

Yep. I wasn't referring to the idea that you presented later--namely, the possibility that entities one contacts during a Tarot reading are not what they purport to be--but simply to a lack of consensus in the more new-agey community regarding which entities can be contacted. Some see Tarot as a conduit for communicating with the dead, others for deities or angels. And to my eye, the simultaneous use of Tarot by various readers for all of these purposes and none shows that Tarot is not, in itself, linked to any external spiritual entity. If a reader chooses to use it in tandem with such, tant mieux, but there's no objective link.

In ceremonial magics of the evocative and invocative type (dealing with 'other' entities), there are certainly guidelines, laws, rules and practices to be able to determine 'what those guides are', their 'origins' , motivations, aims and effects .... BEFORE one 'lets them in'.

In the 'new-age' this baby seems to have been thrown out with the bath water; if it is an 'entity' and it is communicating with you, it is assumed all good, and of the 'highest spiritual import.

This wasn't where I was originally heading, but I like that you brought the discussion in this direction. I personally have never found cause to believe in supernatural entities, but if I were to try to work with one, I would only do so with bindings and protections up the wazoo. (This alone would make me want to avoid mixing evocation with Tarot, because a simple Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram wouldn't suffice for me, and I'm not sure I'd be willing to put in the effort necessary to consecrate my reading space after each client.) In addition, I think I would always maintain a healthy skepticism towards anything such an entity told me and anything it claimed to be.

Often, for some, these 'independent' entities or 'spirits' can be a 'split syndrome' from the psyche. The psyche itself (like the human body ) works in levels of importance and one system ruling or regulating another. A 'hierarchy' IS established, but it all needs to work holistically BUT be able to recognise malfunctions and 'foreign contaminates' .

I do quite like the psychological interpretation, and I think it's important to note that any manifestations of the unconscious mind in this sense are no less "real" in that they can still effect significant psychological change--positive or negative--in the mind from which they originated. (Access to objective external knowledge, on the other hand, has yet to get proved.) For this, I think that using spiritual entities in conjunction with Tarot reading can be useful and provide insight for a querent regardless of whence those entities originate (externally or internally). However, caution is still--in my humble opinion--important, because even the unconscious mind has as many nasties running around as all the demons in hell, and it's just as possible for a reader to dredge up negative influences as positive ones.

To boil that all down to the syrup ... one needs to know (from the magical perspective) what exactly is one dealing with, not accept things at 'face value' and create a clear distinction between any 'assisting spirit' and any ' malevolent spirit' (who, just like some people we have met, may be very good, subtle, or even unknowingly be masking their true intentions). In a tarot reading, I believe this can emerge as projecting one's psychological imbalances and syndromes into a reading ... usually not via the reading interpretations ... but by projecting their psychological associations into the reading ( divided by a subtle thin line in some cases)

I assumed that is the dynamic JackofWands is touching on ?

(sorry JofW if I missed the mark.)

Not where I was originally heading, but I agree with every word. Like I said, the original thought was much more simplistic--something along the lines of "I work with Athena and you work with the archangels, so objectively we can probably determine that Tarot itself is just as effectively used in the absence of either."

(Please note: I typed this all out on my phone and don't have the heart to go through and check for errors. I apologize if autocorrect has tricked me into some error that I didn't catch while typing.)

Clockwork Ghost

People have told me in the past that they will send their own spiritual helpers to assist me with readings. I usually just say 'thank you, if you feel that that will help then please do'. I have my own way of reading tarot that involves not thinking too much about where the information is coming from, and just being receptive to it. Although I've followed quite a few theistic paradigms over the years, I've found that simply letting it happen results in a much more accurate reading than trying to understand or put limitations on it does.

Tanga

closerwalking said:
Starting this thread to explore the different ways folks approach reading tarot cards. The following is the way I approach Tarot readings. I work with guides, and the cool thing with the guides I work with, is that they require me to meet them as equal in the process. There is no hierarchy. These are the sort of guides I work with rather than hierarchal based system of angels, goddesses, etc.

Just to say - working with "angels and goddesses" etc. doesn't automatically mean the relationship is hierarchical. "Meeting in the middle" is always possible anywhere.

closerwalking said:
I come from native american heritage. so I do not think of this in terms of mediums or psychic. Rather I come from an inner knowing that everything alive has consciousness. I have had mountains, insects, birds, trees, rooted beings, 4 legged, mother earth, etc. speak with me, my whole life.

Welcome to the club with this experience of "inner knowing".
In Tarot (and other practices) I sometimes work with "others", and sometimes not.
I have no set routine in this regard. They come and go freely. We connect, or don't.
I have a specific set of "others" (to be more precise, I have: a male animal spirit/Arctic fox, two dead men, an epicene angel, and a female shape-shifter humanoid/black panther -Weird!), and whether they're extensions of my inner-self or actual external "entities" - I'm never quite sure.

Sometimes I see "others" attached to/accompanying the people that I work with.
I'm aware that how I 'see' them is through my own rose-tinted filters of ideas and correspondences so - who knows? I may mention them or not, depending on who it is.

JackofWands said:
I personally have never found cause to believe in supernatural entities, but if I were to try to work with one, I would only do so with bindings and protections up the wazoo. (This alone would make me want to avoid mixing evocation with Tarot, because a simple Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram wouldn't suffice for me, and I'm not sure I'd be willing to put in the effort necessary to consecrate my reading space after each client.) In addition, I think I would always maintain a healthy skepticism towards anything such an entity told me and anything it claimed to be.

Yes. And - it all depends on what you believe and how you see things. Another person may have no need for the LBRP etc. if they didn't believe in it. Things can't get in/affect you, if you don't believe they can on an unconscious level (people are often unaware of what they really believe in their unconscious) imo.
I myself would also be laying out the LBRPs plus plus.

JackofWands said:
I do quite like the psychological interpretation, and I think it's important to note that any manifestations of the unconscious mind in this sense are no less "real" in that they can still effect significant psychological change--positive or negative--in the mind from which they originated. ...However, caution is still--in my humble opinion--important, because even the unconscious mind has as many nasties running around as all the demons in hell, and it's just as possible for a reader to dredge up negative influences as positive ones.

Agreed. "Ofcourse it's all in your head. But whyever would you think, that that means it's not real, Harry?" (Dumbledore to Harry Potter).

Someone has this quote as their signature - it really made me smile.

Pachee

I've only done this once for myself, with the sun and moon tarot. There is this young lady I was visited by twice in hypnopompic dreams, and after a on-off adventure I realized she is something like a shadow guide who's trying to help me integrate my shadow into myself or something, I still don't really get it. The keyword is balance.

Anyway keeping in mind that I'm kind of easily spooked, one day I tried to ask her to tell me what her deal was through the tarot cards. I don't remember the order but there was a pattern of 'the wheel,' 'death,' 'justice,' 'two of pentacles,' and maybe temperance or something. Basically cards dealing with change, the unknown, and duality.

So I'm not gonna discount working with guides. I don't do it much because I don't know about that life, and my intuition is still sort of plagued by doubt. But maybe if I learn the lesson my shadow guide is trying to teach me, I'll be more keen on it (I can be too left-brained, black & white thinker). It's an interesting feeling to work with a guide while doing a reading, because it definitely becomes less think-y and there's this confidence and ease of understanding - it's pure intuition, and synchronicity. I don't know if you need a guide to work with pure intuition though. And for me, it's not like my guide was telling me something I didn't really know, or giving me information I didn't have. It's more like a message from my own unconscious. I don't know how that could help another person in a tarot reading. But that might just be my left-brained skepticism blocking me. Anything is possible. Maybe you'd pick up on emotional cues, and that could make for a more helpful reading. Hmm.

Leo77

closerwalking said:
so how about the others, how does the way you learn about Tarot influence the way you use it? Does tarot teach this or are most people taught to use tarot solo?

I learned from LWBs, for the most part. From there, books and forums are available. I bought my first deck my freshman year of college, way back in 1995 or 96. At that time, I did not see a lot of people talking about Angels or Spirit Guides or anything like that.

There were quite a few people talking about Goddesses and Reclaiming and the Sacred Feminine and Neo-Paganism and Teen Witchcraft, but not a lot of chatter about Angels or Guides.

So that was my foray into Tarot, on a college campus. I took a break, came back around 2008-10, took another break, and recently came back to it again. I suppose, though, that the foundation was already laid way back then when I got my first deck. And there were no Angels back then.

So it's never been on my radar as far as Tarot was concerned. I never related any spiritual practice to reading Tarot. I don't see or hear Spirit Guides or Angels personally, so it seems largely irrelevant to me, especially with relating it to Tarot.

Perhaps a lot of how people view and use Tarot is contingent upon the time period during which they discovered it and began to actively think about it. Seems to me that if you discovered Tarot any time recently, you'd be more receptive to the idea that it could be used as a conduit for communicating with Guides or to the idea that that is where the messages come from in the first place. But if you discovered it before that, and were not predisposed to seeing or hearing entities yourself anyway, you might largely ignore the Spirit Guide talk, like I do.

It's an interesting question. My vote is that a large portion of someone's Tarot practice is influenced by the time period during which it came into their lives.

Tanga

Leo77 said:
It's an interesting question. My vote is that a large portion of someone's Tarot practice is influenced by the time period during which it came into their lives.

Yes. And also perhaps their background experiences impacting the way they look at things.
I have a cosmopolitan background and grew up in a melting-pot of cultures, plus already had several 'psychic awareness' and alternative courses (including shamanism, far eastern energetics and the multifaceted panorama of Indian Deities) in my blood before my Tarot introduction.

And when I decided to follow a formal Tarot course - it was at the London 'College of Psychic Studies' - under a psychic tutoress.

Then add to that a scolarly background in natural sciences (biology and zoology).
You can then see how it's all mixed together in there.

LupaGreenwolf

For me, my readings with the Animal-Wise deck are directly connected to the totems of the animals in the cards themselves. When I pull the cards, I'm not just accessing my own intuition, but also the guidance of the totems. They very often have quite personalized messages they want me to convey to the querent, and so I add that in along with any impressions I have as the reader.

Tanga

LupaGreenwolf said:
For me, my readings with the Animal-Wise deck are directly connected to the totems of the animals in the cards themselves. When I pull the cards, I'm not just accessing my own intuition, but also the guidance of the totems. They very often have quite personalized messages they want me to convey to the querent, and so I add that in along with any impressions I have as the reader.

Such a great deck - the Animal-Wise Tarot. I use it for 'bonus cards' in readings - messages from their guides.

My father's totem, was the African Fish Eagle. So, really that should be mine too as I carry his name. But my other half (mother) is from the Swiss Alps - more suited for earthbound animals climbing all-over things perhaps (mountain goats would suit my star sign). If I chose my own totem - it would be The Madagascan Fossa.
Hmmm....................

Your Athames are beautiful by-the-way LupaGreenwolf!

re-pete-a

ravenest said:
But do you see this as a process of working with 'your spirit guides' , or not ?

Not as such...I do believe that like dust in the air there are many many influencing energies.. call them what you will...

It is recommended to sort out which is which...but how is the problem... the information presented is usually the best way...

I do believe that many sitters and readers are influenced through or by the Tarot ...Many ,many entities slowly stroke the ego ..or anyone alive for that matter...

It's happened for thousands of years and will keep happening for thousands yet to come...

Like fleas...it's just what happens...we've all got them

ravenest

Tanga said:
... If I chose my own totem - it would be The Madagascan Fossa.

I learnt something new today ! I had to look that ^ up ... amazing creature ! Thanks

working with guides or going solo.

JackofWands

Clockwork Ghost

Tanga

Pachee

Leo77

Tanga

LupaGreenwolf

Tanga

re-pete-a

ravenest