"Thou Shalt Not Make Graven Images"

I am a secular Jew, somewhat agnostic, but I do celebrate Jewish holidays, and the basic customs. This question has never really bothered me, but out of curosity, how do people who read Tarot, follow the Ten Commandments go and read Tarot anyway? obviously, like many things, it is a question of faith, and we all must find our own way through faith, religion and everything that is in between. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the matter.

Assyrian Tree of Life

"Asherah"

It is translated in the Bible by "grove" and occurs 30 times. It is called an "idol"; and Maachah, the grandmother of Asa, King of Jerusalem, is accused of having made for herself such an idol, which was a lingham. For centuries this was a religious rite in Judea.

But the original Asherah was a pillar with seven branches on each side surmounted by a globular flower with three projecting rays, and no phallic stone, as the Jews made of it, but a metaphysical symbol. "Merciful One, who dead to life raises!" was the prayer uttered before the Asherah, on the banks of the Euphrates. The "Merciful One", was neither the personal god of the Jews who brought the "grove" from their captivity, nor any extra-cosmic god, but the higher triad in man symbolized by the globular flower with its three rays.

http://www.experiencefestival.com/assyrian_tree_of_life

The title of the thread takes its origin from the second of the 'ten' Commandments, as given in Exodus 20:4-6 and Deutoronomy 5:8-10. Yet here we find that this is only part of what is said, and taken out of context seems to be extremely prohibitive. For example, every copy of the Torah is a graven image of the copy it reproduces.

Rather, the context clearly suggests that one is not to make a graven image of a god from the skies, waters or Earth, nor worship such image in idolatrous fashion.

One may, it could be suggested, treat any item in idolatrous fashion, even a 'sacred' book - and this commandment to me points that this is not acceptable (for those amongst us who generally tend to accept this Mosaïc 'law').

Tarot images are not, to my eyes, graven images that one then worships as gods - no matter what the image. If someone was to take an image and make of it an idol, then of course the commandment applies - but it likewise would to someone who was to take the graven images of a book and make of it an idol.

This is, of course, also the clear distinct difference between the icon, as used a rich and varied ways in the Christian Orthodox traditions, and the idol.

In that sense, Tarot is iconic, not idolatrous.

But nonetheless imagery can be found in Jewish art, including religious texts, some of which are comparable to tarot images. Here is an image of Moses and the Burning Bush from a 14th century Spanish Haggadah,:

http://www.tarotforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=10385

Previously discussed in thread here:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=817240&postcount=82]


In Catholic tradition also I think a distinction was made [following the iconographic debate with Eastern Orthodox church] between reverence and worship.

Kwaw

It is my understanding as a Christian (this is personal) that we must understand that the graven image itself is not God. The statue of Mary is not Mary but rather we pray to the principle behind the statue. It may be the focal point of the flowers and candles but we do not pray to the clay statue itself. I do no know how others understand and justify it but that is what I do.

When I lay down the Tarot cards, I read a picture in symbols, many of them ancient archetypal symbols. It is like reading a jig saw puzzle or the crossword puzzles in the newspaper. They are a tool the same as a book of learning or the Bible for that matter. How much symbology is in that ? A lot.

If an architect looks at the drawing of a building and reads it, is that a graven image ? Nope..same thing.

On Graven Images

Two points on the original question:

(1) The issue in the Ten Commandments has to do with WORSHIP of a graven (or carved or presumably other artfully created) image, as far as I know. Personally, I do not worship nor idolize tarot cards. They are not my god. I don't know of anyone who does worship tarot cards. They are a tool, rather like an illustrated manual or guidebook.


(2) Now, if one believed that the created/printed images were the problem, merely because they were printed images, then that is a far deeper concern. Such people have no business reading books or newspapers, watching television, using a computer, having photos of their family, handling coins or paper money, bonds, stocks, visiting a museum, or even walking down a street where they might be exposed to advertising images! At least since "movable type" was invented, all published material, including the Bible, could be seen as "graven images"...to a literalist.

If such a literal and fundamentalist interpretation were made, then 99.9% of the world's population would stand condemned for breaking that particular commandment in one fashion or another. Myself, I choose not to interpret it anywhere near that broadly, so that I can continue to live in the modern world and not in a cave in some remote location!


Seriously, - jmd makes a very useful distinction between idols and icons.

Sorry, but going to beat a dead horse here. This is very simplistic but I don't believe in gobbledy-gook answers. They are pieces of paper, nothing more or less. They are tools to help unlock that part of the mind that is intuitive. There is nothing worshipful or anything remotely suggesting that you worship the images on these pieces of paper, anymore than you would worship a statue. My take on it.

Baroli*Born-again, Bible, Bumpin',Baptist* (How's that for aliteration)

closrapexa said:

how do people who read Tarot, follow the Ten Commandments go and read Tarot anyway?

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Yep that's what I do, meaning I read Tarot regardless.

I still follow my catholic beliefs, even though I read tarot and do other stuff - such as taking note of moon cycles, planet positions etc....

I justify this because:

* I don't rely on the cards to make decisions - I ask what issues I need to consider to deal with situations
* Even though it can be argued that the Bible is not accurate (historically or scientifically), I believe that the people did exist - both Old and New Testament, therefore my belief is that no religion is wrong (maybe the new Gedi's as a result of the last census)
* I still believe in a higher power - which is good, the church wants us to believe there is life after death and someone else in charge
*I don't cast spells etc... to change my fate or impending bad things that will happen, instead I meditate to ask for guidance on how to deal with it
* And I also do not worship the actual cards. My house is filled with both crystals, candels, holy pictures of various patron saints and my palm sunday branch.

Alot of my family don't agree that you can do both, but I really do feel I am honouring all of my religious beliefs without doing anything wrong.

Demeter

I am with this poster. Praying and thanking God for life do not come second with me. God is first. I think all in all that is what the commandment is saying. I don't pray to tarot and ask them for forgiveness, i don't thank the Tarot for my life. I don't ask the tarot to bless someone. Hopefully this makes sense on my position. Tarot is an iconic tool for deeper thought and discovery. It is in no way a diety, or replacement of a diety. I doubt that anyone would see them as a diety. the tarot is open ended and could fit into any religous background, or even those with the lack of faith of any kind. Those that would consider it evil, do not understand what it is.

Demeter said:

I still follow my catholic beliefs, even though I read tarot and do other stuff - such as taking note of moon cycles, planet positions etc....

I justify this because:

* I don't rely on the cards to make decisions - I ask what issues I need to consider to deal with situations
* Even though it can be argued that the Bible is not accurate (historically or scientifically), I believe that the people did exist - both Old and New Testament, therefore my belief is that no religion is wrong (maybe the new Gedi's as a result of the last census)
* I still believe in a higher power - which is good, the church wants us to believe there is life after death and someone else in charge
*I don't cast spells etc... to change my fate or impending bad things that will happen, instead I meditate to ask for guidance on how to deal with it
* And I also do not worship the actual cards. My house is filled with both crystals, candels, holy pictures of various patron saints and my palm sunday branch.

Alot of my family don't agree that you can do both, but I really do feel I am honouring all of my religious beliefs without doing anything wrong.

Demeter

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