Thoughts on The Hermetic Tarot

Le Fanu said:

China? How bizarre...

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Mine is in a red box with black and white detail from some of the cards. On the base, it says - and I quote:

(c) 1979, 2006 US GAMES SYSTEMS INC.
Made in China - PO-100363 03/2012(QP)

- from which I infer it was a 2012 printing. The cardstock seems nice in the hand and is laminated, but isn't overly shiny. It doesn't blow off any overly smelly lamination chemicals, either.

Forgetting about printing for a moment I wonder if anyone could come forward and say "yes I use this deck as my go-to deck and have done for 30 years"...

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<obediently> Le Fanu, I am delighted to be able to say that I use this deck as my go-to deck and have done for thirty years.

<hopeful look> Did I sound convincing?

I don't know anyone who actually reads with this deck regularly and the sure-fire way to discover is to say "I don't know anyone who reads with this deck regularly."

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I only got it today - as a gift - and came rushing straight here. I'm going to read regularly with it.

I'm a magical person, but I'm a specialist - most of us are. I specialise in Shamanism and Alchemy, totally unrelated disciplines, and in the last couple of years I've been living with a shaman, so my alchemy has gone onto the backburner.

This deck awoke it with a rush of pleasure.

The artistic style is *very* reminiscent of older, traditional alchemical diagrams and artworks. Every card is loaded with alchemical symbols and references.

Alchemy, I apologise. I am sorry I ever neglected our "alchemical marriage" <grin>. I'm coming back to you.

Oh do report back. If it is now printed in China then I am curious, but as I already have a couple of the older Spanish printings I'm not that curious to get a third copy. And I agree, it is very reminscent of alchemical diagrams and artwork.

This deck intimidates me. Not as much as the Liber T but, I do tend to store it on the "impenetrable" pile of decks alongside the Liber T.

Just reflecting on how all the impenetrable decks are Thothy and not RWS and yet the Thoth doesn't seem as impentrable as those decks which copy it...

Le Fanu said:

Oh do report back. If it is now printed in China then I am curious, but as I already have a couple of the older Spanish printings I'm not that curious to get a third copy.

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You've always been the King of Backups, my friend. If you only have a couple of this deck, you clearly have room in your collection for at least three more.

This deck intimidates me. Not as much as the Liber T but, I do tend to store it on the "impenetrable" pile of decks alongside the Liber T.

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Just reflecting on how all the impenetrable decks are Thothy and not RWS and yet the Thoth doesn't seem as impentrable as those decks which copy it...

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Ah, but the Hermetic isn't a Thoth clone. Yes, all the Minor Arcana cards have "Lord of" subtitles as well as their traditional names, but the meanings (and names) of them accord much more closely with RWS meanings than with Thoth meanings.

And I'm finding - at least at this early stage - that the artistic style and magical symbolism makes it deliciously accessible, much more accessible than the RWS deck, in fact.

Twenty-four hours later, and I'm *still* delighted.

Seems to me like the Hermetic could be a "Go To" deck..but not for reading...but for reference, if you wanted to look up, say the angels or decans or something associated with a particular card in the GD tradition, you could either pull out "777" or some other compendium like that, or a deck like the hermetic and look at the card in question. It could also be used for Magickal purposes. It seems like more of a reference or study deck than a reading deck.

nisaba said:

Ah, but the Hermetic isn't a Thoth clone. Yes, all the Minor Arcana cards have "Lord of" subtitles as well as their traditional names, but the meanings (and names) of them accord much more closely with RWS meanings than with Thoth meanings.

And I'm finding - at least at this early stage - that the artistic style and magical symbolism makes it deliciously accessible, much more accessible than the RWS deck, in fact.

Twenty-four hours later, and I'm *still* delighted.

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Compare the Hermetic (I prefer the early USG printing) to the Tarot of the Holy Light... one compliments/enhances the other beautifully.

Surely it is Thothy (?)

It has Art and Aeon and the Minors - or rather, Small Cards - are like the Thoth. If the meanings are RWS then they certainly go against the visuals of the cards which are entirely Thothy to me...

A lot of these Thoth decks have titles like that - Lord of Dominion, Lord of Ruin, whatever - but that's Thoth, isn't it? Golden Dawn-based perhaps but oh god, no, I'm not even venturing near there...

<pricks ears> Your minors don't have titles?

The Hermetic is GD based but not Thoth based. The "Lord of ____" titles for the Minors describe the Decans and were devised (apparently by S. L. MacGregor Mathers) for the GD deck and are listed in Book T, which predates the Thoth.

The Tarot of the Holy Light is neither Thoth nor GD based. My better self is urging me not to engulf the Holy Light in inflammatory remarks.

Le Fanu said:

Surely it is Thothy (?)

It has Art and Aeon and the Minors - or rather, Small Cards - are like the Thoth. If the meanings are RWS then they certainly go against the visuals of the cards which are entirely Thothy to me...

A lot of these Thoth decks have titles like that - Lord of Dominion, Lord of Ruin, whatever - but that's Thoth, isn't it? Golden Dawn-based perhaps but oh god, no, I'm not even venturing near there...

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It actually doesn't, it has Temperance and the Universe. I think part of the confusion is that, contrary to popular perception, the Thoth is actually more faithful to the Golden Dawn than the RWS, sans Thelemic changes. The Thoth minors are much more faithful to Book T except for a few, contrary to the RWS which departs from it completely, except for in a few places. In addition, the Hermetic Strength (Fortitude) is VIII while Justice is XI, while in the Thoth it is the other way 'round; the Emperor is Heh while the Star is Tzaddi... well, you get the point. A dead giveaway as to its direct, almost unfiltered, GD lineage is its Lovers card, that shows Theseus and Andromeda.

As to the Lord of, etc., these are Golden Dawn titles for the cards, which aren't included in the PKT because of secrecy. While some of the cards do in fact bear a resemblance to the Thoth, this is mainly stylistic and also because, like I said, the Thoth is "more" GD than the RWS. The underlying structure of all three decks is identical, and although they have variations, the meanings are more or less the same. If you want, gimme a minor and I'll prove it.

I don't use it regularly, except as a study tool. One of the reasons I bought was because it was black and white, which allows me to write on it, something I don't do with any other deck, and also because it affords a good comparison as a pure GD deck to the Thoth and RWS. I bought it just last year, so of course I have the inferior reprint. I don't know how it was before, but it really is inferior, with some cards looking completely different, all blurry. I don't mind that, though, since I don't read with it.

And certainly with that Hi-Gloss, you won't be able to write anything on it.

I was aware that the Thoth is actually more GD in certain moments than the RWS. Stylistically, I certainly thought it was aspiring to the Thoth - my mistake, I thought it had Aeon and Art etc but I'm on holiday and can be excused for bringing suntan cream, sandals and not the Hermetic - but I can't get the RWS-ness apart from the "in theory" sense. Certainly not visually.

But it begs the question if it bears a resemblance "stylistically" and tarot is pretty much about visuals, how important is the "in theory" part when I think fewer and fewer people read about the decks they're using? I don't really get it with the Hermetic, bending my mind to not finding it Thoth-like. The organisation of some Minors, the hands grasping stalks etc - are not unlike the Wang Golden Dawn deck which of course come from the GD tradition.

GD it may be, but RWS-esque?

Yes, the reprint is pixelated in some cards. But you may get lucky now as there is the China print available. Those editons are much easier to write on.