Hermetic Tarot vs. Aleister Crowley Thoth Tarot

No. Use the Thoth with the Book of Thoth. Or the two guidebooks available by Snuffin (Thoth Companion) or Duquette.

The Mirror of the Soul book is Ziegler's own meanings. No more valid than the ones you or I make up. But if you want to go back to source, you want Crowley's own words.

Le Fanu said:

... it lacks the Thoths warm, rounded edges and feels what I would call *dutifully* symbolic - it's cramming the cards full because it can.

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Which is why for study purposes, of certain things, it is actually better than the Thoth, but it really depends where you're coming from. The Thoth takes certain liberties which render it unsuitable for certain studies, but, you know, apples and oranges. By the time one gets to those differences, you already know what to expect, and that's why I use the Hermetic for study and comparison.

Le Fanu is correct. Mirror of the Soul is problematic in that much of it is completely his own invention, and if you're going the intuitive route, you don't need a book. But the Book of Thoth can be overly complicated without the necessary background information, as it simply assumes you know what it's talking about. I recommend Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot and Chicken Quabalah, both by Lon Milo DuQuette. Both a very good introductions, that will enable you to go further.

And whatever you do stay away from Angeles Arrien!

The main books to use with the Thoth deck are those by Crowley, DuQuette, and the College of Thelema publication Liber Θ. Thoth is a somewhat technical deck. If you only want to read it intuitively, you may not need any supplementary books at all. However, its full value can only be had by finding out what Crowley and Harris had in mind when they created it. Some so-called books about the Thoth are a waste of money, so it would be wise to ask about supplementary materials in the Thoth Forum before buying them.

I just bought Thoth They didn't had medium size, only large and pocket. Pocket is too small so I picked up larger. Now, let the study begins

You could trim the borders and corners if you want. I had that done to my large version of the Thoth and it looks amazing

Enjoy working with the Thoth, it's wonderful - IMHO at least!

If you plan to seriously study the Thoth, do not trim off any symbols or other information on the borders! That stuff is important. If it's taken off the cards, you'll need to have it written down somewhere else until (or unless) you memorize it. Of course, if you only want to read the Thoth the same way as any other deck, the borders don't matter at all. For real study, you need at least one untrimmed Thoth. By the way, the words on the bottom border of the minors are not divination keywords, they are card titles describing the astrological decans.

Le Fanu said:

I think with the Hermetic - let's be honest - people study it. I know very few people who gush over it as a reading deck. It feels like the tarot equivalent of the boring Latin class at school - you know you should study it because you know it is important and clever but it's a bit dry and boring...

Give me the Thoth any day.

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I feel this sudden, overpowering urge to gush over the Hermetic as a reading deck. I find the style of the art to be, erm, twisted and rather disturbing. It's quite accessible and downright friendly as a reading deck. It's almost like it's saying, "Well, if you're willing to try to overcome the disturbance you feel when looking at me, I'm more than happy to be your handy tool for divination and self-exploration".

The Thoth, as much as I love the art, the weird darkness, seems to have an attitude. I literally had to threaten to ship it out the door if it didn't start making sense in order to get it to give me proper readings. Great deck, I love working with it, but I feel more love coming from the Hermetic.

BTW, I've owned a pocket Thoth and ended up giving it away. I just couldn't take it seriously because... well, remember the Season 4 Halloween episode of "Buffy: the Vampire Slayer"? The one where the demon, when raised, turned out to be teeny tiny and Buffy slayed it by stomping on it? That's what the pocket Thoth is like.

November's Dawn said:

I think the title say everything Both marvelous decks full of symbolism and depth but which one do you prefer to work with or maybe you work with both?

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I work with both.

A large number of clients are drawn to the Thoth, and it does good readings in my hands.

I am drawn to the Hermetic.

They are both superb and they both work well. My preference for the Hermetic is simply down to my artistic taste at this moment, which is subject to change without notice. And I've been using the Thoth as one of the regulars with clients, and I'm getting heartily sick of how frequently they choose it over other equally worthy decks.

Le Fanu said:

The Hermetic, in contrast, feels overly male and slightly cumbersome

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Oh, no! It's lush and rich and elegant and luxurious and endless and ...

- it lacks the Thoths warm, rounded edges

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It has its own warmth! a different warmth. It gives and gives.

and feels what I would call *dutifully* symbolic - it's cramming the cards full because it can.

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<cheerfully> Yup! And every time you look at any given card in it, something else surfaces and hits you in the Tarot-brain. Every card in every MRP deck I own or have seen are equally stacked with symbolic details, but you don't hear people complaining. In all cases, you will see what you need to see on each occasion, and the rest fades into the background. The detail simply makes the deck loquacious, in the way of a street-corner gossip with a thirst for passing the news around but no speck of real malice anywhere in her.

It is a bit overloaded and, in short, is inferior because of its inaccessibility.

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It's only overloaded if you try to see everything in every card every time you look at them. And if you do that, IMNSHO, you are completely missing the whole point. Inferior? Inferior to what? The miracle of creation? A happy orgasm? a bank account with only one number but generously stuffed with zeroes?

The Thoth and the Book of Thoth are one and the same and you can't really understand the symbolic beauty of one without the other.

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Normally I'd debate that, but if I choose to accept it as a given, then surely that is a weakness of the deck - it is not a stand-alone system.

I know very few people who gush over it as a reading deck.

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<holds out hand> Nice to meet you, Mr le Fanu. My name is Nisaba.

It feels like the tarot equivalent of the boring Latin class at school - you know you should study it because you know it is important and clever but it's a bit dry and boring...

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Facta non verba, laddie, facta non verba.

LRichard said:

If you plan to seriously study the Thoth, do not trim off any symbols or other information on the borders! That stuff is important. If it's taken off the cards, you'll need to have it written down somewhere else until (or unless) you memorize it. Of course, if you only want to read the Thoth the same way as any other deck, the borders don't matter at all. For real study, you need at least one untrimmed Thoth. By the way, the words on the bottom border of the minors are not divination keywords, they are card titles describing the astrological decans.

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I never trim off borders, even if they don't look good for eyes. Yes I plan to study it and right now I will focus more on my intuition, meditation and readings with Thoth in general, later I will investigate more and more. LWB that came with deck is actually good for the introduction with Thoth. I love this large version and it's not so hard to shuffle