Hebrew Alphabet & Tarot

Do you believe Tarot was originally based on the Hebrew alphabet?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 5.7%
  • No

    Votes: 68 77.3%
  • It seems likely, even if unproven

    Votes: 4 4.5%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 11 12.5%

  • Total voters
    88

beanu

While sniffing around in Trionfi.com,
I came across this -
1867
Lincy, Le Roux de and L.M. Tisserand _Paris et ses historiens aux XIVe et XVe siècles_ (rpt. in "Le Paris de Charles V et de Charles VI, vu par des écrivains contemporains" p. 217)
- this book gives Guillebert de Metz "Description de la Ville de Paris sous Charles VI", where, in a list of the inhabitants of various quarters listed by their profession, we find *Gingonneur (Jean) *, listed in the same column with Nicolas Flamel and (Flamel) the Young (Jean, Jacques and Jaquemin seem to have been more or less interchangable at this time, I discovered) (I think the list is due to Lincy and Tisserand, extracting all the names from G. de Metz and other contemporary accounts).

Nicolas Flamel is one of the big names in alchemy, although as usual there is little hard evidence. So, links with Hebrew letters, probably not,
but links with Alchemy - yes, I'd say so.

Interestingly, this puts a possible link at the origins of the Tarot, rather than usual assumption that the occultists adopted the Tarot later on.

On reflection, this does add a little more weight to the Hebrew Alphabet theory. I may have to reconsider...

Beanu
 

Bernice

Ross: Bernardino of Siena in a sermon in Florence in 1424 describes the four suits, and a King, Queen, Upper and Lower Soldier. That should be a 56 card pack (he doesn't say there are 10 pips, but there is no reason to think otherwise). The addition to the 52 card pack prior to Tarot was the Queen. She is first noted in John of Rheinfelden's moralization of 1377 - thus already there were packs in Germany with 56 cards (and other kinds).

56 card packs might have been common if not standard for a certain time and a certain region of Italy. In the context of a sermon, it might seem that Bernardino assumed it was the pack his listeners were most familiar with.

So there is nothing preventing 56 card packs from existing at this time.

Thank you Ross :). First known mention of a 56 card deck = 1377. I needed to know that!

Bee :)
 

Huck

Ross G Caldwell said:
That is not as secure an assumption as one might think. Bernardino of Siena in a sermon in Florence in 1424 describes the four suits, and a King, Queen, Upper and Lower Soldier. That should be a 56 card pack (he doesn't say there are 10 pips, but there is no reason to think otherwise). The addition to the 52 card pack prior to Tarot was the Queen. She is first noted in John of Rheinfelden's moralization of 1377 - thus already there were packs in Germany with 56 cards (and other kinds).

56 card packs might have been common if not standard for a certain time and a certain region of Italy. In the context of a sermon, it might seem that Bernardino assumed it was the pack his listeners were most familiar with.

So there is nothing preventing 56 card packs from existing at this time.

Ross

hi Ross, hi Bee ...

I didn't see this earlier. Bee, I think, you misinterprete Ross with "First known mention of a 56 card deck = 1377. I needed to know that!"

********



Still we suffer, that the John of Rheinfelden text isn't translated. According a "translation passage" in a German translation of a book of Roger Tilley (according the complicated transfer not necessarily "correct") there were 6 different deck types mentioned:

* 3 different decks with 4x13-structure, variating in the kind of court cards (between them also Queens are used) - 52 cards
* a deck with 5x13-structure - would be 65 cards
* a deck with 6x13-structure - would be 78 cards
* a deck with 4x15-structure (two court cards are female) - 60 cards
(as far my memory is correct)

Arne Jönssen, who (hopefully) still works on the John of Rheinfelden text, curiously mentions in his short Suisse essay 1998 decks with 52, 60 and 72 cards.

Well, that's already contradictious. With Tilley, who follows a Mister EA Bond in 1878 in Athenaeum I interprete:

The 3 different versions with 52 cards are described in a manner, that it stays undecided, how the court cards were composed.

(A). (4x) King + two marshalls
(BC). (4x) Queen + two marshalls
or Queen with two other female characters
(D) 2 Queens with two other female character + 2 Kings with marshals


Well, I don't see a reason to assume the existence of a 5x14-structure from this.

(numbers, marshalls and King are noted before (A - 4x13) "... und so wird jeder König der dreizehnte, und es sind im ganzen 52 Karten. Dann gibt es andere, die auf dieselbe Art ..."

(BC - 4x13)> "das Spiel der Königinnen spielen mit genau sovielen Karten, wie bei den Konigen erwähnt wurden "<(BC).

... (D - 4x13)> "Wieder andere teilen die Karten oder das Spiel so ein, daß zwei Könige mit ihren Marschällen und anderen Karten vorhanden sind und zwei Königinnen mit den ihren auf dieselbe Art."<(D) ...

"Wiederum nehmen manche fünf" (5x13) , "andere sechs Könige (6x13), jeden mit seinen Marschällen, je nachdem, wie es ihnen gefällt, und so wird das Spiel von vielen in seiner Form variiert."

(4x15 - 60 Karten)> "Einige machen das Spiel mit vier Königen und acht Marschällen und den anderen gemeinen Karten und fügen noch vier Königinnen mit vier Gefolgsleuten hinzu, so dass jeder jener vier Könige mit der gesamten Familie des gesamten Königreichs vorhanden ist, wobei ich von den Hauptpersonen spreche, und die Anzahl der Karten ist dann sechzig." <(4x15)
 

Cartomancer

This question is about whether you believe the tarot and Hebrew alphabet were linked from the beginning of tarot. It doesn't matter whether you think the Fool or Magician (or whatever) equals Aleph, nor is it important where the cards originated.

The question of this poll:
Do you believe Tarot was originally based on the Hebrew alphabet?

I answered this question Yes because I believe that the tarot and the Hebrew alphabet were linked from the beginning of the tarot.
- Lance

The question then becomes: How are the tarot and the Hebrew alphabet linked? Considerations:
The alphabet is made of line drawings while the tarot is made of pictures.
The alphabet line drawings are called letters that are used for writing and counting.
The tarot drawings are pictures used to illustrate something. Because of a lack of evidence, what the pictures actually illustrate is a matter of controversy. Do we know what each alphabet letter actually is? We concede that it is a line drawing of something, possibly an abstract symbol or an actual physical object that can be identified. The Hebrew letters have names and words associated with them that define their meanings, or associated meanings. The trumps have pictures and at some point names became associated with them, such as Magician, etc. Words also became associated with the trumps in the form of divinatory meanings. One means of finding a link between the Hebrew alphabet and the tarot is to compare the Hebrew alphabet's word meanings with a trump card's name and divinatory meaning. But will researchers accept a similarity between a Hebrew letter's meaning and a tarot trump card's name and divinatory meaning as proof of a link between them? Perhaps or perhaps not.

The question remains: How can the alphabet and the tarot be linked?
- Lance

I believe Tarot and the Hebrew Alphabet were two totally independent systems- linked only by the fact they were communication symbols and both groups coincidentally were 22 in number. ~Rosanne

I must admit that the majority of people who voted in this poll agree with Rosanne about the Tarot and the alphabet being independent systems.
- Lance

I am quite fascinated by the work and brute labor of Mark Fillipas in this regard.

I haven't seen much of the work of Mark Fillipas in this regard except for a table and lists of words that start with each of the Hebrew letters. This is a fascinating study, but I don't believe that it will lead to a link between the alphabet and the Tarot.
- Lance

His work on an alephbet-base for the tarot is intriguing, but I surmise someone could find an equal number of items starting with other letters of the alephbet for at least some of the cards.

This point is central to this question and possibly why the vast majority of people can't find a one-to-one association between the Hebrew alphabet and the Tarot's Major Arcana.
Each system of corresponding the ancient alphabet and the Major Arcana has hits and misses.
What do we know or surmise?
1) The ancient alphabet had twenty-two letters and the Tarot's Major Arcana has twenty-two cards. Some people think that the number twenty-two is an important connection between the alphabet and the Tarot, while others think that it is merely a coincidence. For the sake of this discussion let's assume that this common use of the number twenty-two may not be just a coincidence and that there are connections between the alphabet and the Tarot.
- Lance

First of all, the Jewish culture around the time Tarot emerged in Europe did not have a tradition of visual art.

The Jewish culture does not figure into this question, which asks if there is a link between the Hebrew alphabet and the tarot. - Lance

Secondly, considering the rich history of Jewish religious and secular writing that has been handed down to us, you would think that if there was a connection it would have been documented. Alas, no such documents have been discovered.

I believe that it is possible that there could have been a Jewish religious or or secular document that could have provided a link between the Hebrew alphabet and the tarot, but as Greg states, no such documents have been discovered.
- Lance

Teheuti, my thought is that if Christians (or Christian Kabbalists) created a tarot with Hebrew letters (or Kabbalistic correspondences) in mind, they would have made it obvious by at least making the letters part of the design of the cards. I don't see any reason for them to hide this.

This is a valid point. If there were a Hebrew letter correspondence to the tarot then there should be some representation of the letter in the design of the actual trump card. - Lance

It sounds to me more like you're in the camp of: "It seems likely, even if unproven."

It is tempting for a small percentage of the voters to believe that there is a connection between the Hebrew alphabet and the tarot even if it is unproven. However, is this link something that can be proven? What would constitute proof? Who would believe it?
- Lance

Your studies should have led you to understand that tarot was altered to fit Kabbalistic concepts -- it does not fit easily onto the traditional (pre-Golden Dawn) tarot.

Could the tarot have been altered to fit Kabbalistic concepts or was the tarot uninfluenced by the Kabbalah? Let's look at the letters first instead of paths on the so-called Tree of Life.
- Lance

... I must confess entire ignorance of the cultural un-likelihood of a Hebrew pictorial representation of the alphabet.... But I think that the parallels are coincidental at best; more likely I suspect that the earlier Tarot was altered to fit with the Hebrew alphabet.\m/ Kat

The concept that there was an earlier tarot without Hebrew alphabet influences is interesting because it implies that the tarot Major Arcana could have existed at an earlier time with entirely different pictures. How then were these earlier pictures modified? Is there any evidence in the early tarot cards of Hebrew alphabet links in form of graphical designs or elements?

Rosanne mentions that there were many anthropomorphic and zoomorphic Hebrew alphabets that could be incorporated into early card designs if desired.
- Lance

There were many anthropomorphic Hebrew alphabets also- some gilded like Jewels. Zoomorphic too lol. ~Rosanne

It is clear that venicebard sees a better link between the tarot trumps and the tree-letters of Brito-Irish bardic tradition, but concedes that there is a one-to-one correspondence between the tree-letters and the Hebrew alphabet.
- Lance

It is quite clear to me that the source of tarot trumps is a tradition surrounding letters, but not Hebrew letters directly, as they are demonstrably based on the tree-letters of Brito-Irish bardic tradition...

The role of Gematria in this investigation needs to be used to reveal the connections between the Hebrew alphabet and the tarot trumps.
- Lance

Gematria is older than kabbalah and has a diverse history outside of it, it has a long Christian history from the Greek, and there are also persian and arabic forms - there are also forms in western vernacular using numerical correspondences with the latin alphabet. Gematria was part of the curriculum in Medieval Oxford. So a connection with hebrew letters does not necessitate a direct relationship with kabbalah.

I also think we can never know and to me personally it doesn't matter. ;)

I would have to ask here: Why can we never know if there is a connection between the Hebrew alphabet and the tarot trumps? Will proof never be found? Is there no way to verify this theory without evidence in the form of a document or stone inscription? And what would this proof look like? Would this proof be acceptable to the vast majority that have considered this question? Does it even matter if the Hebrew alphabet is connected to the tarot trumps?
- Lance

Yygdrasilian has an inclination to discuss a possible common source such as Egyptian, but the question is about the Hebrew letters and the tarot. Yygdrasilian might frame a question about whether the Hebrew alphabet was based on some form of Egyptian writing, which is a real possibility.
- Lance

I don't see that there is any real evidence either way. But a real debate would be fine ...

In early Tarot's case, all of the evidence is silent on a connection with the Hebrew alphabet, and all of the methods of evaluating the evidence make it implausible that there was a connection.

I would add here that perhaps all of the methods of evaluating the evidence were not included in previous studies and thus the conclusions were incomplete. When another method of evaluating evidence is provided to researchers then they can analyze the evidence in light of possible new evidence. When new evidence is introduced into a discussion it must be examined and the methods by which it was obtained must be verified by some means, such as comparison to actual physical artifacts, etc.
- Lance

Thus it cannot be ruled out as a logical possibility that either the inventor of this sequence of cards or an early interpreter noted the coincidence and found it meaningful in some way. But the coincidence extends no further - the names and lore of the Hebrew letters have no relationship with the images and sequence of the trumps. Thus it seems extremely unlikely that the coincidence of number has any meaning, i.e. that the coincidence IS evidence of such a relationship.

Any disinterested historian can therefore say with complete confidence, as much as can be expected in history, that the Tarot was not originally based on the Hebrew alphabet. That's the only rational conclusion.

In my opinion it is important to find a relationship between the Hebrew letters and the images and sequence of the trumps in order to understand the tarot. I believe that there is room for a rational connection between the Hebrew alphabet and the tarot if the discussion is expanded to include epigraphy.
- Lance

Fire Cat provided tables with actual Hebrew letters showing the correct Hebrew number correspondences:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=1715164&postcount=40

But when all the evidence is gathered and weighed, however you want to weigh it, at least if you are an honest broker, then the idea seems at least an historical absurdity - there is no reason at all to think that Tarot was associated with the Hebrew alphabet before 1781, and every - literally every - reason to think otherwise.

The connection between the Hebrew alphabet and the tarot trumps may seem to be a historical absurdity from those doing a sober analysis of factual evidence, which admittedly does not exist or has not yet been recognized as evidence in this regard. How does one gather and weigh evidence to prove a link between the Hebrew alphabet and the tarot without a new document to digest? What if there was a document that proved the connection between the Hebrew alphabet and the tarot, but it was destroyed or hidden somewhere such as the Vatican library? Are there enough clues to reconstruct it if it ever existed? Perhaps a scribe saw a list of correspondences and memorized it and was able to duplicate it in pictures which became the tarot trumps. Would a researcher even know actual evidence if it were found and examined? If the evidence was not in document form, could it still be evaluated such as if it were engraved on a stone tablet?
- Lance

I am not aware of much actual research into the link between the Hebrew alphabet and the tarot except for various lists of the alphabet and letter meanings compared to the tarot trumps and their divinatory meanings. In my opinion these connections should be investigated as part of the research into the link. But what would be acceptable as evidence? If the meaning of a Hebrew letter was similar to a tarot trump, would that be evidence of a link? If there are similarities, what would constitute a valid connection between the two systems?
- Lance

In early decks like the Visconti the sequence of trumps is not clear or fixed. The Hebrew alphabet, on the other hand, is a fixed sequence of letters.

The fact that the Hebrew alphabet has had a set sequence for thousands of years is important because it may have had an influence on the order of the tarot trumps at a time when the order was not clear or fixed. Thus the idea arises: Some tarot trump cards were not originally in the modern order because they were not linked with the Hebrew alphabet. If the cards were rearranged, then what was their original order, if any? Were any changes made to the tarot trumps when they were linked to the Hebrew alphabet? There may never be a definitive document that proves the link between the Hebrew alphabet and the tarot, but there may be secondary sources or undeciphered information.
- Lance

I used the word "believe" in the poll question because I think most ideas are actually beliefs. Even an historian "believes" that using rules of logic and an assemblage of facts will result in a story that resembles truth more closely than other methods.

Can the "rules of logic" be applied to this question?
The tarot is based on the Hebrew alphabet.
The tarot is not based on the Hebrew alphabet.
Is there an actual synchronicity between the two systems?
- Lance

With the key being "from the beginning" I am 100% no.

Do we even know when the tarot began or was first created? We have some early examples, but could there have been a form of the tarot trumps that existed in some form before the tarot trumps? Could the tarot have come from China, Egypt, or India? How would a modern history researcher know if there were a connection between the Hebrew alphabet and the tarot trumps? Who did the research? Where is it published? Does actual historical research into the link between the Hebrew alphabet and the tarot exist? Who is the judge of its validity?
- Lance

I however, believe that the cards are related to the Kabalistic Tree of Life, but not to the 22 Hebrew Characters.

beanu's theory is too radical for me because I can see the Kabalistic Tree of Life as being based on the Hebrew alphabet as well.
- Lance

Perhaps the problem with connecting the Hebrew alphabet with the tarot trumps is that there are several systems of correspondences between the two including the Golden Dawn's, etc. Considering that there are twenty-two Hebrew alphabet letters and twenty-two tarot trumps, then there are 484 possible combinations which would lead to a number of tarot trump sequences as well. Trying to figure out which system of correspondence is correct is very difficult.

Getting back to the question of this poll:
Do you believe Tarot was originally based on the Hebrew alphabet?

This question is about whether you believe the tarot and Hebrew alphabet were linked from the beginning of tarot.

I answered yes to the question because a connection between the Hebrew alphabet and the tarot can be demonstrated by using the methods of epigraphy.

What can be gained by learning if there is a link between the Hebrew alphabet and the tarot and how can it help the modern tarot card reader? It is my opinion that the link between the Hebrew letters and the tarot trumps will reveal a deeper level of meaning that will clarify why the cards have the meanings they do and will help the reader to use the most appropriate words and stories to describe what is pictured on the tarot trumps.
- Lance Carter (Cartomancer)
 

Richard

I voted 'No'. However, I do believe that there is a significant correlation between Tarot and the Hebrew alphabet. Maybe it's a coincidence, but according to Albert Einstein, 'Coincidence is God's way of staying anonymous.'
 

Zephyros

I voted 'No'. However, I do believe that there is a significant correlation between Tarot and the Hebrew alphabet. Maybe it's a coincidence, but according to Albert Einstein, 'Coincidence is God's way of staying anonymous.'

I agree. It isn't even a question of "belief" per se, merely noting correlations and making use of them. Occultly any connection can be made, since that's the point of the occult in the first place, and I would be the first to emphatically agree that the occult connection does exist. However, I don't think this is intentional. The view that it is assumes the deck has always had 22 cards, in the general form they appear today. This is far from being the case.
 

Richard

I agree. It isn't even a question of "belief" per se, merely noting correlations and making use of them. Occultly any connection can be made, since that's the point of the occult in the first place, and I would be the first to emphatically agree that the occult connection does exist. However, I don't think this is intentional. The view that it is assumes the deck has always had 22 cards, in the general form they appear today. This is far from being the case.
Good point! Indeed, the tarot evolved into a deck having 22 trumps (in a specific order). According to A.E. Waite in Azoth: The Star in the East, evolution is the way of all physical, intellectual, and spiritual development. The notion that some specific card designer(s) may have decided to base the trumps on the Hebrew alphabet is not only false, but also mundane and uninspiring, IMHO.

As a matter of fact, since the cards reflect the Christian cultural environment of the time, it would have been more natural for the trumps to have been keyed to the Greek alphabet, since Greek was the language of the New Testament of the Christian Bible. However, the Koiné Greek of the New Testament has 24, not 22, letters.
 

Zephyros

There is also the question of why the Trumps exist as they do in the first place. Fool does not equate with the "ox" of Aleph, neither does the Magician. An Empress isn't a door, and most women I have seen aren't either.

One has to understand just how holy the Hebrew letters are in tradition. Just like Crowley's Book of Law, they cannot be changed, they cannot be altered, they are esteemed beyond man's puerile creations. Now, obviously I'm not talking from the point of view of the linguist. Were I to, I would say that obviously any language changes over time and Hebrew is no exception. However, after the fall of the Second Temple, Hebrew practically died out for all practical purposes, surviving mainly in the Masoretic texts and other religious literature. It was as dead a language as Latin. This afforded it a unique period of stasis in which it was deemed a holy language unfit for common speech. The Biblical interpreter Rashi actually created his own typeface just not to use the Hebrew letters, so holy were they. While it was taught in yeshivas, Jews in the diaspora didn't use it that much, preferring either the local languages or self-developed languages influenced by locales such as Yiddish or Ladino (which is actually very similar to the Spanish spoken in the 15th century). With the advent of the Haskalah (enlightenment) period in the 19th century, as well as the Zionist movement, Eliezer Ben Yehuda's revival of Hebrew, going so far as to actually create the first Hebrew dictionary, was seen as nothing short of heresy.

This is not to say that Jews were completely devoid of imagery. Highly influenced by the Moors who depicted fantastical geometric shapes, since they shared the Jewish belief against graven images, Jews did create visual works. They were perhaps freer in their interpretation of what constituted a graven image (a statue is one, a picture is not). Would that influence "cause" Tarot? Actually rather doubtful, since the idea seems to suggest already highly developed Kabbalistic culture, which doesn't seem to be the case. European culture was indeed influenced by the Jews, especially during the Golden Age and after the expulsion from Spain, but lacking any contemporary evidence, I can't see it having to do directly with Tarot.

For Hebrew, a dead language, to trickle into mainstream European culture, either through texts or word of mouth, become part of a game and be seemingly so ubiquitous, there would have to be overwhelming evidence, since no culture exists in a vacuum. And I'm not talking about the odd word or book, but reams of information should exist for such a cultural impact to make any sense.
 

gregory

Gregory doesn't see that there is any real evidence either way, but that a real debate would be fine with him.

Gregory is a her. :angel:

That aside, I cannot read your post. I wish you had put the quotations in quotation boxes; it would have made it - well - readable. As it stands it is too hard on the eyes. At any given point you keep having to look up to see whether you are in a quote or what you have said about that quote.

However
I answered yes to the question because a connection between the Hebrew alphabet and the tarot can be demonstrated by using the methods of epigraphy.

What can be gained by learning if there is a link between the Hebrew alphabet and the tarot and how can it help the modern tarot card reader? It is my opinion that the link between the Hebrew letters and the tarot trumps will reveal a deeper level of meaning that will clarify why the cards have the meanings they do and will help the reader to use the most appropriate words and stories to describe what is pictured on the tarot trumps.
YOU believe a connection can be demonstrated. Given that I don't actually think it can be proved either way, to go on and say that
the link between the Hebrew letters and the tarot trumps will reveal a deeper level of meaning that will clarify why the cards have the meanings they do
doesn't really hold up. If the letters weren't there at the start (and I don't actually think they were, myself, though I still say there's no evidence) they don't add a level of meaning in and of themselves.

I also agree to a degree with LRichard:
As a matter of fact, since the cards reflect the Christian cultural environment of the time, it would have been more natural for the trumps to have been keyed to the Greek alphabet, since Greek was the language of the New Testament of the Christian Bible. However, the Koiné Greek of the New Testament has 24, not 22, letters.

There may be a degree of correlation NOW - drawn in by others - but I do NOT believe it was in there at the start.
closrapexa said:
It isn't even a question of "belief" per se, merely noting correlations and making use of them. Occultly any connection can be made, since that's the point of the occult in the first place, and I would be the first to emphatically agree that the occult connection does exist. However, I don't think this is intentional. The view that it is assumes the deck has always had 22 cards, in the general form they appear today. This is far from being the case.

We all use whatever suits our personal theories to explain where tarot meanings come from. You believe in the Hebrew alphabet being as part of it. I don't, but would be prepared to be convinced by PROOF (and I heartily doubt whether that CAN ever be forthcoming.) Not by "Well I think it is so this is where it goes next."
 

Ross G Caldwell

I am heartened by the fact that the vast majority of respondents - 55 out of 70 -answered a definite "No" to this question.

The other large group, 8 people who answered "I don't know", must have their reasons.

But I am puzzled by the 7 people who answered "Yes" or "Likely". Why does anyone still feel the need to believe that the Tarot trump sequence was designed with the Hebrew alphabet in mind?

First, there is no reason to believe it - there is no evidence at all.

Secondly, the cards do not depict the Hebrew alphabet or the meaning of its letters in either Jewish or Christian tradition.

There remains only the coincidence of the number 22, and the traditions of occult teaching for the last 2 centuries - which themselves are based on this coincidence of number, and the two main traditions (French and English) don't agree on the assignations.

But the coincidence of number extends to other potentially occult intepretations, such as the 22 chapters of the Book of Revelation (Apocalypse), which does in fact contain a lot of the imagery also shown on the Tarot cards. But no occult tradition has ever developed this coincidence, or claimed it was the source of the number of trumps or the imagery on the cards.

However, I remain happy with the results. There will always be "that 10 percent".