Cards with no people?

Mercurius

Mr Darnay's contributions offer some fascinating possibilities, and I look forward to seeing what you have to say about the Celtic Cross.
Just a couple of questions:

I thought the standard GD attribution for Justice was Libra rather than Scorpio. Does Waite go for Scorpio instead? and how does this affect the rest of the zodiacal attributions?

If the phases of the moon are brought in, and I'm very happy to do so, the distribution you suggest ("XIV=New Moon.,XVIII =First Quarter,The Lovers = Full Moon, IX= 4th Quarter which terminates on Trump XIII") seems to lead to a huge bunching in the moon's second quarter -- how does it work?
 

Richard

Mercurius said:
.....I thought the standard GD attribution for Justice was Libra rather than Scorpio. Does Waite go for Scorpio instead? and how does this affect the rest of the zodiacal attributions?.....
That's puzzling. I thought the point of making Justice 11 was to align it with the 12th letter Lamed, which is the 7th simple letter, i.e., Libra.
 

Mercurius

LRichard:
That's puzzling. I thought the point of making Justice 11 was to align it with the 12th letter Lamed, which is the 7th simple letter, i.e., Libra.
Exactly, that's why I was asking. C. Darnay wrote:
Justice(Scorpio) has to be switched with Strength (Leo) not only to maintain the Zodical correspondence between Lion and the Lion but because it enables both of the upper worlds to be opened with the Visica Pisces...
and
No, Justice (as XI) is Scorpio.The Fool is laid across across it "on one side," thus forming the Ma'at symbolism...
It may just be a slip. However, there is obviously a slightly different system in general—the attribution of 9 Wands and 3 Swords to Temperance/Sagittarius/Knight Wands, is also not standard GD, so I'm interested to see how this system works.
 

Mercurius

It may be connected, but the other correspondences don't link in: Charles Darnay is talking about Strength as Leo (VIII) and Temperance as Sagittarius, which are the GD correspondences (unlike Thierens who has Strength XI as Aquarius and Temperance XIV as Mercury).
 

Charles Darnay

Sorry,I,or ,more accurately, we, just saw this.We are a group of seven home schooled students,aged later teens to twenty (the eldest now in college) whom our tutor Mr.Parisious allows the use of some of his notes on a variety of subjects on which he does not,at a given particular time, directly wish to involve himself in controversy.
Yes,it was Thierens,not Yeats,who gives Justice to Scorpio(our error).In the GD system, which Yeats and Farr used(at least originally)Scorpio is the Thirteenth Trump and it is good.It is the Thirteenth Sphere,the Way of Escape in WBY's "A Vision".
Mr. Parisious has never said anything about the attributions of the letters.He doesn't have any personal theories on the subject.He is not an Hebrew esotericist nor an Hebrew exotericist either. but is very interested as what to what Yeats and his predecessors were doing.
Frankly it would appear to our young eyes that a lot of hogwash was deliberately being thrown all over the place by everyone concerned.Papus published an astronomical(not an astrological) key, as he termed it. Thierens quotes the Papus expositions of the letters in nearly every single Greater Trump but he only accepts the Papus "astronomical" attribution of the Zodiacal Signs in exactly one instance,The Empress,Gemini.And he does not quote Papus on the Aleph when he discusses the Magician.
The statements on the the the three forms of the Visica Pisces with the entrances into the three worlds stand,as do the correlations with the four lunar phases.
Mr. Parisious contributed a number of footnotes to an article on "The Thirteenth Sphere" published in Yeats Annual dated 1999(actually written 1999-2000).The subject became even more complicated when the author,Ron Heiser, discovered that the Yeats Tarot layout was directly linked to a largely unpublished commentary on the "Pistis Sophia" which Blavatsky began with GRS Mead shortly before her death. Taroot 11 is the maiden being pursued by a lion named Arrogance right up to the 13th Sphere.
 

Mercurius

Thank you for getting back on this.

So Justice is Libra, and Fool lies across her. Got that.

The lemniscate appears in Magician, Strength, and you suggest that it is suppressed in the Devil? {Vesica piscis is generally used to denote the mandorla shape () the intersection of two circles.}

My original question though was how the phases of the moon mapped against the Trumps:
If the phases of the moon are brought in, and I'm very happy to do so, the distribution you suggest ("XIV=New Moon.,XVIII =First Quarter,The Lovers = Full Moon, IX= 4th Quarter which terminates on Trump XIII") seems to lead to a huge bunching in the moon's second quarter -- how does it work?
Is it only the 12 trumps that correspond to the zodiac (in GD system) that are used? Do the other trumps fit into the pattern?

I'll try to look out the Heiser essay, too.
 

Mercurius

Just noticed that you also said that Tarot 11 is the maiden with the Lion, which means that 8 is Justice and 11 is Strength?
 

Charles Darnay

Sorry,we posted a reply several hours ago but it does not seem to be up.If it does not appear by tomorrow we will post another but as it was rather lengthy the alternative will have to be much shorter.
 

Mercurius

Hope you'll have time to post some details at least--fascinated by the potential patterns here.