Need someone else's opinion on this, before i message the lying, cheating dog.

Sharla

Also the way ive learnt to do charts, i'm the enquirer so i get the first house asc, i'm asking about someone i'm involved with, so he gets the 7th house and then k would get the 5th house for her involvement with him.

So i need to refer back to what i originally said i think, as why would X get the first house when im the one asking the question......i'm not asking the question FOR him, its me myself who is wanting to know.

If i was asking for him about if he was going to see k again, then yes id use him for 1st house.....and she would still be 5th.
 

Minderwiz

Sharla said:
Why would K be 7th house, its nothing serious that's been going on between them. When i 1st met this guy and Minderwiz cast me my first horary chart to answer a question about him, he used him as the 5th as we wasn't properly together.

Okay so he's 1st.....i did think that the questioner got 1st asc. I doubt Mars will be marrying venus anyway as Mars is already marriied....
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I think you put your finger on the key issue here. In your original question you were looking at a marriage/long term relationship in which you lived together. To me, his marriage rendered the question moot because there was no chance of him leaving or divorcing his wife. My feeling, from your description of your relationship was that he had no real intention of doing that. He sees you as a mistress, you see him a potential life partner. For you he was seventh house but for him you were fifth house - some good fun and good sex.

There's no point in doing a marriage horary if marriage is out of the question. Often trying it will produce a chart that shows this. Things like no reception between significators, no aspect, early or late Ascendant, Moon VoC, etc.

Now originally the seventh meant husband or wife: The partner. In medieval times with the advent of horary, it was broadened to include anyone who is not you, unless they have a known family relationship, or are friends or neighbours. It's that broadening that lies at the basis of John Frawley's use of the seventh for casual relationships, especially where the context is not fully known, or where both partners agree on the nature of their relationship.

In the case of X and K, I fully understand Frawley's position. I'd have used the seventh too, until I picked up on the evidence.

If X and K just want sex with no strings, I'd use fifth for a one night stand or a couple of meetings. There is a case for using the seventh if it went on for much longer, though there's still a good case for using the fifth if the sole purpose is fun. Indeed I find Frawley's distinction between persons and act a bit glib. It's purpose that matters more, so if the sole purpose is good sex then it's fifth; Once the purpose becomes a committed relationship, even if only one of the partners is asking, then it changes to seventh; providing that there's no just cause or impediment known to the Astrologer.

As you can see there's no definitive answer. It has to be treated on a case by case basis. For any horary, the Astrologer has to understand the question and understanding involves applying known facts to establish the correct house to use. As Lilly said, you have to temper science with art... That is use your discretion.

I don't know what sort of relationship X and K are having, if any. So there's no clear answer here. The default might well be to use the seventh for any two unrelated people but knowing he's married colours my judgement on that.
 

Sharla

Minderwiz said:
I think you put your finger on the key issue here. In your original question you were looking at a marriage/long term relationship in which you lived together. To me, his marriage rendered the question moot because there was no chance of him leaving or divorcing his wife. My feeling, from your description of your relationship was that he had no real intention of doing that. He sees you as a mistress, you see him a potential life partner. For you he was seventh house but for him you were fifth house - some good fun and good sex.

There's no point in doing a marriage horary if marriage is out of the question. Often trying it will produce a chart that shows this. Things like no reception between significators, no aspect, early or late Ascendant, Moon VoC, etc.

Now originally the seventh meant husband or wife: The partner. In medieval times with the advent of horary, it was broadened to include anyone who is not you, unless they have a known family relationship, or are friends or neighbours. It's that broadening that lies at the basis of John Frawley's use of the seventh for casual relationships, especially where the context is not fully known, or where both partners agree on the nature of their relationship.

In the case of X and K, I fully understand Frawley's position. I'd have used the seventh too, until I picked up on the evidence.

If X and K just want sex with no strings, I'd use fifth for a one night stand or a couple of meetings. There is a case for using the seventh if it went on for much longer, though there's still a good case for using the fifth if the sole purpose is fun. Indeed I find Frawley's distinction between persons and act a bit glib. It's purpose that matters more, so if the sole purpose is good sex then it's fifth; Once the purpose becomes a committed relationship, even if only one of the partners is asking, then it changes to seventh; providing that there's no just cause or impediment known to the Astrologer.

As you can see there's no definitive answer. It has to be treated on a case by case basis. For any horary, the Astrologer has to understand the question and understanding involves applying known facts to establish the correct house to use. As Lilly said, you have to temper science with art... That is use your discretion.

I don't know what sort of relationship X and K are having, if any. So there's no clear answer here. The default might well be to use the seventh for any two unrelated people but knowing he's married colours my judgement on that.
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I originally used myself as the 1st as i was the one enquiring, then x was the 7th as he is the one i'm asking about, as between us its gone a little more further than fun and sex, and this other person i've found out about, she gets the 5th. I mean he's married too, so this makes it even more complicated on who's the 7th.
 

Minderwiz

Sharla said:
I originally used myself as the 1st as i was the one enquiring, then x was the 7th as he is the one i'm asking about, as between us its gone a little more further than fun and sex, and this other person i've found out about, she gets the 5th. I mean he's married too, so this makes it even more complicated on who's the 7th.
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If you are asking about his relationship with K, you have two choices

My preference would be the same as CosmicBeing. As you are not directly involved in the question, Give him the first. Now you have a decision about K. Does she get the seventh or the fifth? You know he's married, she may not. Do you know for a fact that they have some sort of relationship already going?

If you really don't know much about what is going on, she gets the seventh, as simply another person. If you know he's having sex with her then there's an argument that she takes the fifth as a casual fling. There's also the question of how he looks on her. If he sees her as a potential source of free sex then she's fifth house, at least at this stage. Do you know what he's told her? Does she expect more than sex?

If the question boils down to does he want to continue with her, then she's seventh. But note, you are not asking will he marry her or will he move in with her. He can't do either and you know that. But you can use the seventh for a question such as has he any feelings for her.

Her significator in the first simply means she's offering herself to him not that he will choose to accept her. But he can choose to accept if he wants. The condition of his significator will answer that. I've just looked at the chart and Venus is only a degree from the second cusp and in a different sign to the Ascendant. Medieval Astrologers would treat Venus as second house, not first, when using quadrant houses. So she's not offering herself, if he takes first. She has little interest in him, though I haven't checked the minor dignities.

However if she's interested solely in sex that doesn't of itself rule out a second meeting. That there's no aspect forming between Mars and Venus may well rule it out.


Your second option is to take the first for yourself. You're asking about him as another person, rather than as your lover, so he gets the seventh. K is a possible rival for his favours, so she gets his fifth house, which is the fifth from the seventh of the chart you cast - that is the eleventh house.

In the second approach you are testing to see if there's a casual relationship between them and whether it will last.

Both approaches are possible because they answer different, though related, questions. So your first task is to decide what question you want answering.
 

Sharla

Minderwiz said:
If you are asking about his relationship with K, you have two choices

My preference would be the same as CosmicBeing. As you are not directly involved in the question, Give him the first. Now you have a decision about K. Does she get the seventh or the fifth? You know he's married, she may not. Do you know for a fact that they have some sort of relationship already going?
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I've always thought that, if your asking about someone else but they've not asked the question and have not asked you to do the chart etc....then you get the 1st. They are not in no relationship, its just been a couple of times and this was before he started getting feelings for me, to which then he said he stopped seeing her.
If you really don't know much about what is going on, she gets the seventh, as simply another person. If you know he's having sex with her then there's an argument that she takes the fifth as a casual fling. Do you know what he's told her? Does she expect more than sex?
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It was just sex to my knowledge and what he's told me, he's constantly been txting me and coming to see me and arranging a week away etc.....and this has all been when he got back from holiday, which is when he said he realized he had developed feelings for me, and whilst away he was constantly txting me every spare moment he got, he even asked me to marry him lol.
If the question boils down to does he want to continue withher, then she's seventh. But note, you are not asking will he marry her or will he move in with her. He can't do either and you know that. But you can use the seventh for a question such as has he any feelings for her.
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I wasn't asking about feelings or marriage to her etc, hes already married you know that. I just wanted to know if he was telling me the truth and had no intentions of seeing her again like he had told me. Thats why i gave her the 5th.
Her significator in the first simply means she's offering herself to him not that he will choose to accept her. But he can choose to accept if he wants. The condition of his significator will answer that.

Your second option is to take the first for yourself. You're asking about him as another person, rather than as your lover, so he gets the seventh. K is a possible rival for his favours, so she gets his fifth house, which is the fifth from the seventh of the chart you cast - that is the eleventh house.
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Oh she gets the 7th from 5th okay.....im just learning about doing this today......this option you give makes more sense for me to use and thats what i originally did.
In the second approach you are testing to see if there's a casual relationship between them and whether it will last.

Both approaches are possible because they answer different, though related, questions. So your first task is to decide what question you want answering.
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Sharla

So between mars and venus there is a separating semi square that's it.

Venus has a conjunction coming up with saturn and going on a chart i did this morning and him being venus and landing in the 2nd house with saturn.....then im saying he is telling the truth as he's got some money issues at present he's really worried about, a couple of things he had in the pipe line have flopped.

So as venus has just moved from the 1st to the 2nd house could this be that he was focused on himself but now he has other issues going on concerning money. ?

Because its funny regarding venus, because on a couple of occasions in the past couple of weeks, if i cast a chart regarding him he would always be venus, and would always be located in the 1st house, which i took as his interest being in me. But now with saturn pressuring him in the 2nd house his focus has changed, does this makes sense ?
 

Minderwiz

It would be even more straightforward to ask 'Is he telling me the truth?'

I think you need a fresh chart for that.

If you leave it as you first him seventh, her eleventh (fifth from seventh) you have a problem. He's Venus but the eleventh cusp is just in Libra. She can't be Venus too.

However Jupiter is in the eleventh, which is its joy and Venus is applying to a sextile to Jupiter. What's more there's a mutual reception between Venus in Sagittarius and Jupiter in Libra. This suggests they've both got the hots for each other and there will be more meetings
 

scorpiogirl

Sharla why not do another chart, start from scratch, and ask what is the likely outcome between you and your boyfriend? This may show future outcome, etc.
I wonder all these questions you are asking are so confusing and turning charts is so difficult...
So sorry you are going through all this!
 

Sharla

Following on in this story, so thought id keep it in the same thread. Ive now just to put a final conclusion on things, asked what is X's feelings for K.

https://postimg.org/image/4ph74wpvb/

Im giving x this time the first house,making him jupiter and k being the 7th as im asking about feelings.

They are both in the sign of libra but both peregrine to each other, so not receiving each other in an y dignity.... and they are not in the same houses.

The AC/DC axis are on cadent signs, so i'm seeing this as things were not serious and stable between them and things were moveable and changeable.

There is venus in the 12th house which i'm not too sure about, as 12th house can be things hidden and there is a sextile applying between jupiter and venus soon.
 

Sharla

Minderwiz said:
It would be even more straightforward to ask 'Is he telling me the truth?'

I think you need a fresh chart for that.

If you leave it as you first him seventh, her eleventh (fifth from seventh) you have a problem. He's Venus but the eleventh cusp is just in Libra. She can't be Venus too.

However Jupiter is in the eleventh, which is its joy and Venus is applying to a sextile to Jupiter. What's more there's a mutual reception between Venus in Sagittarius and Jupiter in Libra. This suggests they've both got the hots for each other and there will be more meetings
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Yes ive just noticed this aspect between jupiter and venus in another chart ive just cast before even noticing your reply................so the stupid ***** is going to see her today, as she lives closer to him, OMG im so angry right now.
 
Three or more planets in a house = yoga (vedic) Can somebody help me with this Ephemeris.