Aeclectic Tarot
Tarot Cards & Reviews          Tarot Forum               Free Tarot Readings           Tarot Card Meanings

RWS: 12 >< 21 and Saturn's Glyph

  > Aeclectic Tarot Forum > Tarot Special Interest > Rider-Waite-Smith





 
firemaiden's Avatar
firemaiden  firemaiden is offline
keeper of the toaster
 
Join Date: 07 Jun 2002
Location: Poitiers, France
Posts: 10,828
firemaiden 

Hmmm.... I guess what I am trying to get at, is what the importance is, behind the association with Saturn. I can see that the legs might be interpreted to imitate the glyph of Saturn... my question, is... why? or... so what? Why did Waite care (if he did) about Saturn enough to put it on a tarot card... and does knowing that the legs are making this reference affect me as the reader in any way, or is it just a cute little association to make us go, "oh, that's a glyph for Saturn..."

Beyond the pictoral element, is there a meaningful association between Hanged Man, and the planet Saturn?

P.S. Is Saturn the RWS attribution for the Hanged Man?

I posted a translation ages ago of a tarot reading in the prologue to Tournier's Vendredi ou les limbes du pacifique:Michel Tournier's Reading for Robinson Crusoe in which the Hanged Man is read as Saturn...but it was undoubtedly a reference to a non-RWS deck.

p.p.s. ... just curious. I don't "get" astrology.... I don't understand what the cross references add...but this Saturn / Hanged Man thing does stand out because of the legs...
Top   #11
Moongold  Moongold is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 08 Jun 2002
Posts: 7,723
Moongold 

firemaiden ~

It may be worth having another look at Rachel Pollack’s 78DW. She has an interesting take on the symbolic references between Saturn glyph and the Hanged Man.

Saturn (Kronos) is the God of Earth and seasonal cycles. He is about the laws by which man must live if he is to survive in this world. He is the God of the practical, the pragmatic and the here and now. If we don’t do the things we need to do in this world we won’t survive. We reap what we sow or don’t sow. If we don’t grow and provide for our own security we won’t survive materially and we remain childlike and dependent psychologically and spiritually.

Irene Gad (Tarot and Individuation, Nicholas Hays, 1994) comments that the Hanged Man means ” …acceptance of fate, awareness, discipline and submission to the knowing spirit. It shows that mindfulness opens necessary doors and leads to the strength to contemplate the void and to transform inner emotional landscapes."

The acceptance of fate, awareness and discipline are characteristic of Saturn too. These characteristics lead to a transformation, higher understanding. In terms of the Hanged Man, it was after Odin hung upside down from the tree that he developed magical powers - powers of transformation

The Hanged Man is at peace with the rhythm of life, He seems to be a symbol of independence in the Saturnal sense. Saturn is rooted in Earth, Hanged Man in the Heavens. They reach towards each other. They both, in their own way symbolize individuation. Perhaps this is a connection? I am new to exploring these associations as well.
Top   #12
Vincent  Vincent is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 04 Dec 2003
Location: SA Australia
Posts: 353
Vincent 

*****
Top   #13
Fulgour's Avatar
Fulgour  Fulgour is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 10 Jun 2004
Location: slumbrin in the windrows of the hours...
Posts: 7,828
Fulgour 
from PKT


Quote:
Originally posted by Vincent
What Waite intended, however, is another thing altogether.
Waite calls this card Prudence (page 22);
and then says it is not Prudence (page 116);
and then says it means wisdom (page 285).

But he says it convincingly!
Top   #14
firemaiden's Avatar
firemaiden  firemaiden is offline
keeper of the toaster
 
Join Date: 07 Jun 2002
Location: Poitiers, France
Posts: 10,828
firemaiden 

Thank you Vincent, that was very interesting.
Top   #15
Moongold  Moongold is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 08 Jun 2002
Posts: 7,723
Moongold 

Thank you, Fulgour, for the thread. Although some of us are not scholars these threads raise interesting questions and associations nevertheless. Today's discussion has been enlightening - much food for thought

I didn't think the intention of Waite really mattered. It is what the images touch in the reader that matters, n'est e pas?

My first interest is tarot but I'm studying astrology at the moment and am particularly interested in Saturn. There is sometimes such a difference between historical and scholarly views of the Tarot and the views of individual readers that I hold my breath .

Some advanced souls can see infinity in a raindrop. I look forward to that moment of enlightenment. With quiet reflection and practice I may just get there.
Top   #16
Fulgour's Avatar
Fulgour  Fulgour is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 10 Jun 2004
Location: slumbrin in the windrows of the hours...
Posts: 7,828
Fulgour 
thanks Moongold


Saturn (Ninib) was the god of seeds, and I find that when
I'm out every morning feeding the birds (an it ain't cheep)
there is a feeling of personal nearness to this planetary
diety ~ a sense of something sacred, right here at home.

There was an article concerning the recent Saturn probe that
stated that the density of Saturn is consistent with foamboard.
A chunk of our supposedly leaden friend would float on water.

And why is Saturn about 'restrictions' because it's farthest out
when Jupiter is given 'growth' for almost the same reasons?
I tend to see them as having a special interactive relationship.

*

Velikovsky
http://www.varchive.org/itb/sunstar.htm

Jean-Philippe Arzul
http://home.worldonline.co.za/~astro...upiter_saturn/
Top   #17
firemaiden's Avatar
firemaiden  firemaiden is offline
keeper of the toaster
 
Join Date: 07 Jun 2002
Location: Poitiers, France
Posts: 10,828
firemaiden 

Quote:
Originally posted by Moongold
I didn't think the intention of Waite really mattered. It is what the images touch in the reader that matters, n'est ce pas?
True... and, you know I am usually with you on this score, however in this case I specifically asked what the intentions of Waite were.

What is interesting for this card, is that the association with Saturn pre-dates the RWS, and is inherited pictorally, and yet seems specifically to have been eschewed by him.

I didn't know that Saturn was another name for Kronos. Now this disturbs me, because I thought Kronos was the Hermit.
Top   #18
Moongold  Moongold is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 08 Jun 2002
Posts: 7,723
Moongold 

fm ~

There is lots of stuff on the internet but i got my knowledge from a Liz Greene book on mythic astrology.

http://www.myastrologybook.com/Satur...hology-god.htm
Top   #19
Fulgour's Avatar
Fulgour  Fulgour is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 10 Jun 2004
Location: slumbrin in the windrows of the hours...
Posts: 7,828
Fulgour 
12 Lamedh


Quote:
Originally posted by Vincent
It [The Hanged Man] is attributed to the Hebrew letter Mem
and the element of water. Vincent
But isn't Waite hinting at something else ~
the obvious 12th letter?

Lamedh: The pivot, Transcendence.

Initiation by the tests of the life, the abnegation,
the gift of oneself.

It is forgiveness. Forgiveness makes it possible to heal.

The ordinary Value is 12, its numerical Value is 30,
and it corresponds to the sign of the Balance~ Libra.
Top   #20

 




 


More in the Aeclectic Tarot Forum
· Tarot
· Tarot Special Interest
· Beyond Tarot
· Forum Library

Elsewhere on Aeclectic Tarot
· Tarot Cards & Reviews
· Free Tarot Readings
· What's New
· Tarot Card Meanings

Aeclectic Tarot Categories
· Angel Decks
· Dark & Gothic Decks
· Goddess Decks
· Fairy Decks
· Doreen Virtue Decks
· Beginner Decks
· Cat Decks
· Pagan & Wiccan Decks
· Ancient Egyptian Decks
· Celtic Decks
· Lenormand Decks
· Rider-Waite Decks
· Marseilles Decks
· Thoth Decks
· Oracle Decks
· List All Decks
· Popular Tarot Decks
· Available Decks
· Tarot Books
· What's New

Copyright © 1996 - 2020 Aeclectic Tarot. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy. Contact us.