umbrae's relationship spread...bit off a bit too much?

hi all,

i did umbrae's relationship spread for someone. i like it and plan to use it in the future, but as a beginner i might have been a bit too ambitious. i would appreciate any input you might be able to offer me on the reading.

i used the rider waite deck

person 1 (female)
feels-2 wands
needs-emperor
expected outcome-devil

person 2 (male)
feels-knight wands
needs-5 cups
expected outcome-ace cups

center (relationship)
core-ace pentacles
needs-ace wands
expectations-8 swords
future-5 swords

the cards i found most difficult to understand were the knight of wands, the devil, the 8 of swords and the 5 of swords.

it seems to me the female wants more structure and feels insecure and the male has a more positive view of where the relationship is going but is unreliable and emotional. but that the relationship has a solid foundation and though it will have difficulties they should remember to stick together and put their relationship first but be careful of hurting others in the process.

does that sound at all right to anyone? lol

I was really intrigued by this spread, and would like to use it in the future. As of right now I'm pretty intimidated by it and even though I can't offer any sort of critique, I can say you're my hero for giving it a shot
Blessed Be, Pixie

Interesting but

hard-to-interpret spread. I have not deared using it yet.

However, with these cards interpretation is easy:
don't run, spring!!!!!!!

That's what I see: she's co-dependent. He is irresponsible and immature. There's a potential for comitment but all they will get from it is to entangle themselves into each others problems and get a co-dependent relationship going where there will be hurt feelings.

May be Umbrae will drop a line here and give you a hand with that...

Good luck.

Alex.

cuddles said:

person 1 (female)
feels-2 wands
needs-emperor
expected outcome-devil

person 2 (male)
feels-knight wands
needs-5 cups
expected outcome-ace cups

center (relationship)
core-ace pentacles
needs-ace wands
expectations-8 swords
future-5 swords

Click to expand...

I'll echo Alex on the advice. This relationahip is a train wreck looking for a busy crossing to happen in.

She's all about image. She's looking for some stud who's gonna look good escorting her. She'd also like for him to be stable and a good provider, but the outcome card shows you how successful that desire will be. The Devil also tells us how she's a slave to this pattern and is probably doomed to repeat it over and over.

On the other hand, he's an over-the-top adreneline junkie who probably falls in love at the drop of a hat and who seems to thrive on drama. His outcome? The Ace of Cups promises a new party as soon as the old one is over.

On to the relationship itself: nice start... lots of promise in the two aces, but just look at that ending! Eight swords followed by five swords? Do yourself a big favor, if they decide to go forward with this relationship, see if you can get them to let you take out a life insurance policy on both of them. It would be a good gamble for you.

It is really not that difficult of spread, Mojo and Alex nailed it about right.

She wants/needs to be controlled, he likes to control – fine there

She will end up being bound to him and he will end up loving her.

Then the crap starts…Train wreck time. Look at how the Devil relates to the 8 of Swords, now look at how the Ace of Cups relates to the 8 of Swords…He is gonna have his heart drug through the street!

The 2 of Wands is what she brings into the relationship, she has been hurt and is looking for a kind loving father figure.

He brings in the Knight of Wands…a cavalier attitude, but he’s really wrapped up in the whole self image thing – and will be blindsided by her clinging. His commitment issues will kick in…

Look at how the in the beginning it looks like they both get what they want (Ace of Pentacles).

Emperor – Ace of Wands - 5 of Cups, when things start going right, his feet get cold.

Devil – 8 of Swords – Ace of Cups…it could just be that his heart moves into another direction because of her overbearing clingy wants and needs…

It’s over before it starts.

Just a quicky as I can't see anything good here either:

The word leech comes to mind with her, and the expression 'leech removal cream' comes to mind with him. His 5 Cups tells me he needs to 'let go'. And the final five speaks about the heartbreak of the three swords, followed by the refuge from the battle in the four before the five picks up his bags to move away in the six.

Sorry to be so brief, busy day ahead.

allibee

well, this is enough to put me off doing spreads for people for a while....

first of all, thank you very much for your thoughts.

ok, so how do i break it? i don't want to just say...bad news, this relationship is a nightmare in progress. and i need some perspective based on your experience. i have read that the cards show things as they are based on what is happening this moment. so with a reading like this, is it possible for the problems to be addressed and the future to change? or is it just too bad? are the patterns in these people too fixed? i guess i mean...can i offer any hope?

i remember reading umbrae say that he likes to lead people to their own conclusions and not just give them the bad news straight out (did i get that right?). but i'm not sure pointing out the possible problems would be enough. on the other hand, tarot is just about showing what is there, not about making people see or understand it, right?

I guess this is the hard part

compared to that reading the cards is easy.

If you have time, I would suggest you, ask about her father and mother. How they related at home. And what she expects of a man. That may give you some ace to start discussing relationships etc. It will not be easy to get a sound dialogue going. Tell her to read "Co-dependent never more" if you get a chance. Easy to locate at amazon.com.

I really ain't have no much experience counseling people or breaking news. I know that just saying "this is gonna happen" will just make her suspicious... of you.

Alex.

cuddles said:

[Bok, so how do i break it? i don't want to just say...bad news, this relationship is a nightmare in progress. and i need some perspective based on your experience. [/B]

Click to expand...

cuddles said:

well, this is enough to put me off doing spreads for people for a while....

ok, so how do i break it? i don't want to just say...bad news, this relationship is a nightmare in progress.

Click to expand...

cuddles... don't be put off... you chose a rather complicated spread.... try something easier... 3 cards or even just one card... people get over-enthusiastic when they see a spread that gives all sorts of detailed information. These spreads are usually designed by people with a great deal of experience and should not be used by beginners... I've been reading for more than 35 years and I still prefer a 1 or 3 card draw to a complicated spread.

As for delivering "bad news," you have to detach yourself from the news itself. People who ask for a Tarot reading want to know what's being hidden from them. On the surface, they may show excitement about the relationship, but underneath, they may have their doubts. I've found that the bad news is usually welcomed better than the good news - especially where relationships are concerned.

I would have read this to the querents in pretty much the same way that I wrote about it here. I'm just the messenger. I didn't create the relationship, I'm just commenting on it as asked to do by them. Of course, with friends, this is a little more difficult to do, so you have to go back to the more humble approach of, "you know, I might be comepletely off base on this, but the cards say....." and then go on with the bad news. But I would never do that with a paying client.

well, i think in reading it i didn't do such a bad job. and it's different when you know the people. this relationship appears to be so good from the outside. they have problems, sure, but seem to be a couple who work them out. who knew what was lurking underneath? i sure didn't! so when i read the cards i picked the positive meanings. (i used joan bunning's learning the tarot). is this a problem you have struggled with? seeing clearly when you know the people involved? and what about finding the right emphasis for people you don't know at all? is that all something that comes with time?

it has been a good lesson for me in so many ways. i will stick to simpler readings for others. i certainly don't know the cards well enough to understand the more complex readings. i especially have problems understanding the relationships between the cards in readings.

and though i have read many places that you should read as much as possible for family and friends don't think you will always enjoy it! lol and i think there is a danger that people who don't know much about it will see it as a game and not be prepared for a message they didn't expect. perhaps i should be a bit more careful about stressing that it's not a game.

up to now the cards have always seemed to have positive messages...or is it that i always see the positive in them? though some of the details of the readings of this spread were different, everyone seemed to agree it was bad news. i saw problems but nothing like the "run away!" message everyone else got. makes me wonder if i am missing messages i should see in readings i do for myself.

thank you sooo much to everyone who helped. this has been a difficult but important experience for me.