The Egyptian Theory of Origin

CLARIFICATION - this question is not about playing card decks (such as the Mamluk ones) - but refers to a deck that includes the 22 allegorical images known as TAROT.

Do you believe that Tarot, as a fixed set of 22 or 78 images, recognizable to us today, originated in Egypt?

If it was introduced by the Mamluks, sure, but not until 1200AD or so Perhaps through the audaciousness of Qutuz asking for Christian help in his battle of the Mongols there was a trading of...gambling games? A long shot...


I think it started as a game: either a child's or gambling. I am not sure if the European version came from the Mongols via China (eventually) or from Islam via china, Mongols and then Mamluks, or even some other order of the above route/choices. I am convinced that with a few exceptions it reached Europe as a deck they would understand and was converted as such either in Qaraqorum ( a personal little indulgence of mine) or along one of the many Islamic or Mongol borders with Europe/ Eastern Christianity in the 12th century. Europe was a cultural backwater, selfish, internal fighting machine during the 11, 12 and into the 13th century,offering little to the world to trade or conquer. The Pope and the holy Roman Empire could not see eye to eye and all kingdoms in Europe were influenced by this ongoing political/religious struggles in Europe as far as I am concerned. Anything that made it back to us was though traders, monks or crusaders. I think we can take Monks off the list

I am certain it came out of Persia translated and redrawn to a recognisiabe iconic/imagery deck of cards by the time it hit Europe. Sure a few curiosity decks made it in the form of "mamluk" cards and variations, but there is no reason for any of these few curiosities to survive in Europe.

Unfortunately i don't know enough about the tarot history yet to quote facts, but i think what the crowned one said raises a good point. The closest relation to the tarot i think lies with the Kabbalah from what i've read so far, but egyptian myth is right next to it! Hope you find what your looking for.

I had to post to the poll as No- but did not like the absolutely, because I believe the minors did come via the Mamluks.
The pattern is too similar to the pips we have now in the Visconti and the TdM.
I do not think it was 22 right from the start.
I think two parts came together in Italy.
~Rosanne

Jyscal said:

Unfortunately i don't know enough about the tarot history yet to quote facts, but i think what the crowned one said raises a good point. The closest relation to the tarot i think lies with the Kabbalah from what i've read so far, but egyptian myth is right next to it! Hope you find what your looking for.

Click to expand...

I thank you for the point but I want to completely seperate myself form the Kabbalah. I have read a few books on the tarot connextion and enjoyed them, but there is no historical connection older then a couple 100 years.

I believe the idea and game crossed over. I believe that the attitude and ideology of the time lead to a deck in Europe that was full, from day one, of moral lessons and your "place in the order of things" and that the cross over came from the hierarchy and society devisions displayed in the "Mamliuk " decks. Imagery was the language of the mind as few could read. Images are your mind’s vocabulary, the building blocks of its language. By default the images would have to be things the populace could relate to...or it would not have become popular and survived the test of time in my personal opinion.

Rosanne said:

I had to post to the poll as No- but did not like the absolutely, because I believe the minors did come via the Mamluks.
The pattern is too similar to the pips we have now in the Visconti and the TdM.
I do not think it was 22 right from the start.
I think two parts came together in Italy.
~Rosanne

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Intresting. I feel it is two joined sets too, but am open to other ideas. I do not feel it came from the Mamlics but rather through them at best. The Mumluks had 200 or so good years and really were a diverse race of people conquered and sold by the Mongols to Islamic Caliph's. They were too busy fighting to do much more then transfer culture, not develop it.

The Weight of Thine Heart

While not yet proven, I think it will be.
No big surprise there.

This is not to say that the deck of cards existed in ancient Egypt, rather that the cipher that has come to be associated with Tarot has its origins in antiquity; though I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of something much “stranger” at work in Tarot’s evolution.

There are very good reasons Crowley called it The Book of Thoth.

Although it has proven problematic to discuss such matters with those who know what I am writing about - as it seems “they” are sworn to uphold oaths of secrecy - I am optimistic that that will soon change.

(the stone is polished, all eyes shall open)

Yygdrasilian said:

While not yet proven, I think it will be.
No big surprise there.

This is not to say that the deck of cards existed in ancient Egypt, rather that the cipher that has come to be associated with Tarot has its origins in antiquity; though I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of something much “stranger” at work in Tarot’s evolution.

There are very good reasons Crowley called it The Book of Thoth.

Click to expand...

Antoine Court de Gébelin seems to have been the first to suggest this, I think if he had learned of and read Jean-François Champollion he may not have gone down that path. I do wonder if he was a victim of Egyptomania?

Where do you think it all started?

It appears that some of you believe that the Mamluks created the Tarot deck - complete with allegorical images in addition to the four suits. Anyone want to explain this?

I am writing about - as it seems “they” are sworn to uphold oaths of secrecy - I am optimistic that that will soon change.

(the stone is polished, all eyes shall open)
to true. I hope Mr Waite is listening! There is another myth im not sure if you know of. Its about the four mages who made the Tarot cards as a way to preserve their power and secrets. My friend has the full story in her book, ill try get it and post it here. Thats one of the myths id like to be true, but probably not!