Gonna learn Thoth if it kills me - Majors

[Grigori]

Hi Folks,

Just a reminder, that the debate about whether to study the Thoth or not doesn't belong in the Thoth section, and is better in the other general areas of AT. This thread and others in this section are intended for folks who have already decided they would like to learn more about the Thoth. That way we can discuss real content and not get derailed in discussions about should we be here or not.

The guidelines on this idea can be found in this thread. http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=107085

Any thought or questions about it please PM me

[Alan Ross]

Originally Posted by Abrac

Here's three flowers in one.

Hmm. Makes sense, in a deflowering virgins sort of way. That's a quite a range of interpretations for this symbol that's been suggested so far. I'm not so sure what to make of it at this point. Is it the female reproductive organ? the male reproductive organ? Sexual chakras? An esoteric reference to the Qabalah? Or is it all the above? Perhaps much of the complexity of the Thoth lies in the ambiguity of the symbols used. Obviously, The Thoth doesn't give up all of it's secrets easily.

Alan

[Abrac]

To me it seems as obvious as the nose on your face, but to each their own I suppose.

[Abrac]

In his companion book, Crowley says, "Above them hangs the benediction of three flowers in one." A benediction is an invocation, prayer or request for a blessing. The female flowers are seeking a blessing from the male sun directly above them. This makes perfect sense in the light of Crowleyan sex magic.

I think sometimes we make the Thoth tarot a lot more complicated than it really is.

[nicky]

Originally Posted by Abrac

In his companion book, Crowley says, "Above them hangs the benediction of three flowers in one." A benediction is an invocation, prayer or request for a blessing. The female flowers are seeking a blessing from the male sun directly above them. This makes perfect sense in the light of Crowleyan sex magic.

OMG I love that ... and so in tune with the concept of the greenman and spring and the fertility of the raw energy concept. Thanks!

[nicky]

Magus... I am now in possession of the Book of Thoth in my hot little hands.. lot less said about the Magus than the Fool (whew).. from the multiple descriptions of the card ... Mercury our ole trickster is both knowledge communication and the messenger of the gods...and our monkey friend here is to remind us that hence any speech may be inadequate or ambiguous.

If I am understanding this... the card would be more similar to the Marseilles type decks than the RWS types with the old cards and the juggler ...

As this cards path is so high up on the tree I would offer that the top third would all be 'more' than we can comprehend.. particularly the paths from Kether.... on which our Fool, Magus and HP sit.

Nicky

[Alan Ross]

Originally Posted by Abrac

To me it seems as obvious as the nose on your face, but to each their own I suppose.

It may be obvious, but if so, it's surprising that neither DuQuette nor Snuffin provide that interpretation. Directly after mentioning the three flowers, DuQuette says "We can only speculate on the meanings of these symbols." However, I did say it makes sense to me. I certainly wasn't disagreeing. Snuffin's suggestion also makes good sense to me. There's no reason I'm aware of that I can't have it both ways.

Alan

[Abrac]

I can't comment on Snuffin, but I don't really take Duquette that seriously. Just because he can't (or won't) explain something that doesn't mean it can't be explained. Often he simply parrots what Crowley has already said or fails to comment at all on certain things. I also suspect there might be a deliberate attempt on his part (and others) to keep some things secret.

Edit: I've just read Snuffin's description and I understand where he's coming from. It's not illogical if you assign the flowers to Earth. But it seems like an uninspired attempt to explain something that he really doesn't have a good answer for. That's not intended as a put-down, though I know it will probably come across as one. It just sounds like a lot of the same ol' same ol'. The thing that makes this symbol unique is not it's "earthiness," but it's unusual formation.

[Aeon418]

Originally Posted by Abrac

In his companion book, Crowley says, "Above them hangs the benediction of three flowers in one." A benediction is an invocation, prayer or request for a blessing. The female flowers are seeking a blessing from the male sun directly above them. This makes perfect sense in the light of Crowleyan sex magic.

I think sometimes we make the Thoth tarot a lot more complicated than it really is.

It might make perfect sense in the light of Crowleyan sex magic. But there's danger in interpreting symbols on one plane only. While it may make things seem less complicated, it has the nasty habit of pulling vision away from the stars to the gutter.

THE yoni and phallus were worshiped by nearly all ancient peoples as appropriate symbols of God's creative power. The Garden of Eden, the Ark, the Gate of the Temple, the Veil of the Mysteries, the vesica piscis or oval nimbus, and the Holy Grail are important yonic symbols; the pyramid, the obelisk, the cone, the candle, the tower, the Celtic monolith, the spire, the campanile, the Maypole, and the Sacred Spear are symbolic of the phallus. In treating the subject of Priapic worship, too many modern authors judge pagan standards by their own and wallow in the mire of self-created vulgarity. The Eleusinian Mysteries--the greatest of all the ancient secret societies--established one of the highest known standards of morality and ethics, and those criticizing their use of phallic symbols should ponder the trenchant words of King Edward III, "Honi soit qui mal y pense."

[Alan Ross]

Looking more closely at this three flowers thingie, I notice that the "flower" on the lower left is actually not a single flower, but what seems to be three small flower buds. Does anyone have any ideas about what, if any, significance that could have?

Alan