Major Arcana & Zodiac sign correspondences

[Persephone37]

Originally Posted by Fulgour

Hello Petra! My quest for the reasons "Why?"

But when I found out that there were 12 known
letter correspondences for the 12 solar months,
and they were as old as the ancient alphabets,
it was like being given a gift from above...
...
NO kabbalah or silly men in pointy hats
and when the images don't seem to match
remember: it is called the Major Arcana...
the greater mysteries~ but it's all there.

Hey thanks for the picture. Ai, dammit now I have to sort my cards again, just thought I wouldn't need to. Okay, one last time I will sort them and write the correct numbers up - I am baaaaaaaad in memorizing numbers, I can't just remember them whatever I do. - Wait, I did in this thread, din't I? RELIEVE!!! So it was not to bad that I posted it. ggg

Cheers
Petra

[kwaw]

There isn't any apparent zodiacal type ordering in the iconography of the cards. Most obvious astrological type imagery in the Tarot is the Sun and Moon, which might relate to either the Sun and Moon and/or to the signs they rule; the image of the 'crayfish' like creature in the Moon card looks very similar to images for Cancer in some older astrological text books. The image of the two figures in the Sun card may reference Gemini, in the opinion of some, but as they are on the Sun card it is worth noting that a similar image was used for the fifth house [consignifator of Leo]. Images of Aquarius in medieval / renaissance astrological books have some similarities to both the figure of Temperance and the kneeling figure in the Star. The Star could also possibly relate to the 'morning/evening star' Venus; Gebelin/Mellet relate it to Sothis but also the 'creation of the fishes', in an older uncut sheet there does appear to be a fish in the water, so there is possibly a relationship to Pisces; as I've detailed elsewhere there are numerous connections between La Maison Dieu and Jupiter/Sagittarius, and Capricorn/Devil. This gives the possibility of:

Cancer / Leo ruled by the lights [moon, sun 18, 19]]
Sagittarius / Pisces ruled by Jupiter [Maison Dieu, Star – 16, 17]
Aquarius / Capricorn ruled by Saturn [Temperance, Devil 14, 15]

This suggests an [irregular] pattern that carried on with a possible extension would imply that:
Aries / Scorpio ruled by Mars correspond to Hanged Man and Death, while a case for scorpio / death is easily made it seems to break down with and after Aries / Hanged Man.

The scales of Justice suggests a correlation with Libra. The lion of Strength has been used to make a correlation of Leo, but the fact that the lion is overpowered could also relate it to Libra [in which the Sun, symbolised by the Lion, is in its fall].

Of course most systems of astrological correspondences are not based upon any internal iconographic reference to astrology but a supposed 1:1 correspondence with Hebrew letters [which have traditional astrological correspondences derived from the Sefer Yetzira, though there are variations in the planetary correspondences] which varies in the three main systems according to the placement of the fool [at the beginning, in 21st place or at the end].

Kwaw

[Fulgour]

Originally Posted by kwaw

Of course most systems of astrological correspondences are not based upon any internal iconographic reference to astrology but a supposed 1:1 correspondence with Hebrew letters [which have traditional astrological correspondences derived from the Sefer Yetzira, though there are variations in the planetary correspondences] which varies in the three main systems according to the placement of the fool [at the beginning, in 21st place or at the end].

The so-called "Sefer Yetzira" is an imaginary document
supposedly discovered in a cave in Spain around 1280.

The Phoenician Alphabet (upon which Hebrew is based)
utilised the Zodiac Signs and Planets as a reference to
preserve knowledge by attaching it to heavenly events.

Tarot has what humans have created to be an heritage:
Living Knowledge clearly translated in Knowable Symbols.

It speaks to us in our own language today because it is
not kabbalah or mysticism...it is our living heritage now.

[kwaw]

Originally Posted by Fulgour

The so-called "Sefer Yetzira" is an imaginary document
supposedly discovered in a cave in Spain around 1280.

I think you are confusing it with the Zohar [which nonethess is not an 'imaginary' document but a real one, as is the SY, though both may be construed as speculative and pseudo-epigraphical, if that is what you mean].

The SY is an anononymous document pseudo-epigraphically attributed to Abraham, generally thought to be of palestian origin c.2nd century ad to 6th [parts of it, such as the first chapter, possibly as late as the 9th or 10 centuries]. It forms the basis for the zodiacal attributions to the Hebrew letters. There is little if any evidence for such prior to the SY [in connection with the Hebrew alphabet], there is no evidence whatsoever that such attributions go back in time to the phoenician alphabet upon which the Hebrew is based.

Kwaw

[Fulgour]

Originally Posted by kwaw

...there is no evidence whatsoever that such attributions go back in time to the phoenician alphabet upon which the Hebrew is based.

Without the Phoenician, there is no Hebrew...
which came first, the chicken or the egg? ><

[kwaw]

Originally Posted by Fulgour

Without the Phoenician, there is no Hebrew...
which came first, the chicken or the egg? ><

... according to various Christian and Jewish exegetes of Genesis, according to their interpretation of, for example, Gen 1.11/12:

"11 God said, "Let the earth put forth grass, herbs yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit after their kind, with its seed in it, on the earth;" and it was so.

12 The earth brought forth grass, herbs yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit, with its seed in it, after their kind; and God saw that it was good."

Kwaw