Swords: what's the correct upright position?

[Lumen]

Hi,

I've seen different upright positioning for some of the Swords cards, and I am confused as to which one is the correct. This specifically applies to the cards number 3, 5, 7, 9, and 10 (the Ace is self-explanatory). Could anyone point me out to these cards correct upright position?

Thanks in advance.

Lumen

[Lumen]

Oops, forgot to mention the deck...

I am referring to the Ancien Tarot de Marseille, Grimaud.

Thanks.

Lumen

[Bernice]

There are other threads which discuss the 'swords up' versus 'swords down' enquiries, because decks differ and it's not easy to see which way is 'upright'. The consensus of opinion is that you decide for yourself which you prefer.

I consider Sword cards with the blade upright to direct their energy/meaning 'outward', from the querent to others. And if the sword points downwards I consider the energy/meaning to be coming 'in' towards the querent.

Most people have their own ideas though. Look at the cards and see how they 'speak' to you.

Bee

[Bernice]

Here are three recent threads which discuss the Swords;

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=108914

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=97727

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=30623

Bee

[Lumen]

Hi Bernice,

I also think that the correct position is upright, as non-reversed. The sword suit is active, and it makes sense to see their full potential when upright, and restricted when reversed. Also when seeing all of the cards next to each other there is a nice circular motion going, as 2 and 3 forms one circle with one flower and one sword, 4 and 5 a double circle, 6 and 7 a triple circle, and 8, 9, and 10 a quadruple ending in double swords. This suggests a progression, and if one card displays a sword pointing down and the other pointing up it seems to be a disruption in the progression of this pattern. The increasing number of circles, with alternating flower and swords, remind me of the Jungian concept of consciousness and unconsciousness - ideas, mind... To me this pattern implies harmony, vibrations in water and sound.

Take care

Lumen

[Lumen]

Hi Bernice,


I checked the links you posted, very interesting to see different approaches. Yep, swords positioning is pretty much set by the reader...

Take care,

Lumen

[Bernice]

I like the perception of harmony, patterns, and vibrations in water and sound.
But I don't necessarily equate Swords with the Mind/Intellect, that's a 'modern' Rider-Waite association and these historical/original decks existed long before RWS, GD etc.

However if that's how they speak to you, then go with it! Every deck seems to have it's own voice, and will speak the Readers language if a connection is made.....

Bee

[Moonbow]

Ah the Grimaud, my favourite Marseilles.

I've come to the conclusion that there is no correct upright position because there is so much convincing opinion on either side. An upright sword can reflect a more positive aspect, like celebration. Whereas a down pointing sword seems to reflect negativity. Then again, there is argument to say that an upright sword is ready for battle and a down pointing one is peaceful.

I've listened to a few knowledgeable people on this and no one seems to be right so the best advice I was given is to follow how the cards looks within the reading at hand.

[Lumen]

Moonbow,

I agree with you: the fact that readers are unable to achieve an agreement in what is the correct upright position it is evidence that there is not one specific way to set it; this is much like all theories out there on social movements...

The reader's interpretation is the right one.

As for Grimaud, I just purchase my third deck. My first one came as a gift with a purchase of a magazine on Tarot that I got back in the early 80s (my first intro to Tarot), when I was still living in Brazil; the second one I purchase some 10 years ago; and now that it has been worn out, and I pretty much know which card it is from its back, I just bought a third deck in Montreal, all in French. I love this deck; it is as part of me as an extension of my hands.

Lumen

[thinbuddha]

Marseille decks were likely created for use in card games, not fortune telling. I don't believe that there is any intention for the cards to have an upright or reversed position. I certainly don't incorporate reversals into my readings with TdM.

That said, if you really need to know, you should look to the oldest surviving wood blocks used for printing tarot cards (Conver, 1760). The sword tips would point down when the card is in the upright position.

http://en.camoin.com/tarot/Tarot-Tem...as-Conver.html