[Bernice]

Posted by C: And here are some other transcriptions I would like you to consider...

Tarik - VIA - Way / Path

Djama ah - POPULUS - People ( Citizens )

Idjitima - CONJUNCTIO - Meeting ( Harmony )

Ouklah - CARCER - Prison

Al-nosrat-ou-l-dakhilah - FORTUNA MAJOR - Great Luck ( in the sense that the Goddess Fortuna is smiling upon you for a quite long time )

Al-nosrat-ou-l-kharidjah - FORTUNA MINOR - Small Luck ( in the sense that the Goddess Fortuna is smiling upon you only for a short - and maybe passing - moment )

Al-kabd-ou-l-dakhilah - ACQUISITIO - Gain ( Income )

Al-kabd-ou-l-kharidjah - AMISSIO - ( total ) Loss ( Deprivation )

Al-layan - LETIZIA / BARBARTUS RIDENS - Happiness / the laughing bearded Man - ( the so called TIME or HERMIT )

Ankis ( here you may think of the ANKH... ) - TRISTICIA / TRANSVERSUS - Sadness / the reversed Man - ( the so called HANGED MAN )

Nakyou-l-khad - PUELLA - the Girl ( Virgin - in the sense of sobriety or abstinence )

Djoudalah ( in some Arabic versions the Name for that Fig. can be transcribed as LINGAM or CLUB... ) - PUER - the Boy ( young Man / Rowdy )

Bayad - ALBUS - White ( in the sense of holyness or knowing GOD and his scripts... )

Homrad - RUBEUS - Red ( the red One in the sense of Blood )

Al-atabat-ou-l-dakhilah - CAPUT ( DRACONIS ) - the ( Dragons ) Head ( in the sense of Wisdom and Shelter... )

Al-atabat-ou-l-kharidjah - CAUDA ( DRACONIS ) - the ( Dragons ) Tail ( the most dangerous Place to be - could be a Sign for black Magick - beware - NO GO Area )

C

Which trump cards do you associate these figures with?


Bee.

["C"]

...as I said in the above post to Ross G Caldwell...

Beware of PUER and PUELLA - they are here also mixed up in some way...

...and you can never have too much information...
Here for example the names given by M. Paul Meyer can add a certain view on some of the 16...

C

["C"]

...hope You dont address me with this post ?
Just to be shure...

C

[Bernice]

Posted by Bernice: Which trump cards do you associate these figures with?

Posted by C: ...hope You dont address me with this post ?
Just to be shure...

C

Yes indeed, I do ask you this question.

You began this thread with your ideas/theory that the geomantic figures are encoded in the trump cards of the tarot. We've yet to see your association of which cards you have paired with the figures.

Bernice.

["C"]

...I may quote from the above...

***Now for your suggestion...

"For members who are unfamiliar with geomancy, it might be better if you were to pair the card name with the geomantic figure, then give an explanation for your choice."

Im really sorry - but thats not the way how it is done...
Not even Filippo was spared for that...***

So it might be better You ask Ross for example - you two seem to get along very well and he - so it seems - has new eyes already - can have a look for You...

C

[Ross G Caldwell]

Originally Posted by C

...Wow - You have very sharp eyes...

As I told Bernice in the above thats exactly the way how it is done - and youve done right...

C

Well, I don't think I have new eyes, just taking hints from you

I see you are steeped in occultism, especially Thelema - you use the term "Atu" and spell "magick", and perhaps the importance of Puer and Puella in your scheme is indicative. This might help interpret your hints.

Because it is not self-evident or even relatively easy, I don't think it will convince anyone - except those who want to be convinced.

But I'll give it a go, based on what you, C, find important.

Tarik - VIA - Way / Path: FOOL or CHARIOT

Djama ah - POPULUS - People ( Citizens ): WORLD or JUDGEMENT

Idjitima - CONJUNCTIO - Meeting ( Harmony ): LOVE

Ouklah - CARCER - Prison: JUSTICE

Al-nosrat-ou-l-dakhilah - FORTUNA MAJOR - Great Luck ( in the sense that the Goddess Fortuna is smiling upon you for a quite long time ): FORTUNE

Al-nosrat-ou-l-kharidjah - FORTUNA MINOR - Small Luck ( in the sense that the Goddess Fortuna is smiling upon you only for a short - and maybe passing - moment ): CHARIOT or LOVE

Al-kabd-ou-l-dakhilah - ACQUISITIO - Gain ( Income ): BAGATO (MAGICIAN) or TEMPERANCE

Al-kabd-ou-l-kharidjah - AMISSIO - ( total ) Loss ( Deprivation ): DEATH or FOOL

Al-layan - LETIZIA / BARBARTUS RIDENS - Happiness / the laughing bearded Man - ( the so called TIME or HERMIT )

Ankis ( here you may think of the ANKH... ) - TRISTICIA / TRANSVERSUS - Sadness / the reversed Man - ( the so called HANGED MAN )

Nakyou-l-khad - PUELLA - the Girl ( Virgin - in the sense of sobriety or abstinence ): CHARIOT or POPESS or EMPRESS

Djoudalah ( in some Arabic versions the Name for that Fig. can be transcribed as LINGAM or CLUB... ) - PUER - the Boy ( young Man / Rowdy ): STRENGTH or FOOL or EMPEROR

Bayad - ALBUS - White ( in the sense of holyness or knowing GOD and his scripts... ): POPE

Homrad - RUBEUS - Red ( the red One in the sense of Blood ): EMPEROR or DEATH or EMPRESS

Al-atabat-ou-l-dakhilah - CAPUT ( DRACONIS ) - the ( Dragons ) Head ( in the sense of Wisdom and Shelter... ): POPESS (HIGH PRIESTESS) or EMPRESS

Al-atabat-ou-l-kharidjah - CAUDA ( DRACONIS ) - the ( Dragons ) Tail ( the most dangerous Place to be - could be a Sign for black Magick - beware - NO GO Area ): DEATH or LOVE

[Bernice]

I had wondered if CAUDA ( DRACONIS ) might be The Devil, given that C describes it with the term 'black magick'. (Shades of A. Crowley?). Death or Love also makes sense for the moons south node.

I've also wondered if some clue to Cs' arrangment might be in the images - regardless of the card name.

As given so far, this has been an interesting diversion, albeit that 6 of the trumps have been discarded without any explanation. Perhaps further thought might develope this idea into into a viable theory for 'reading' with the trump cards....... maybe add another layer of meaning.


Bee

[Ross G Caldwell]

Originally Posted by Bernice

I had wondered if CAUDA ( DRACONIS ) might be The Devil, given that C describes it with the term 'black magick'. (Shades of A. Crowley?). Death or Love also makes sense for the moons south node.

I've also wondered if some clue to Cs' arrangment might be in the images - regardless of the card name.

As given so far, this has been an interesting diversion, albeit that 6 of the trumps have been discarded without any explanation. Perhaps further thought might develope this idea into into a viable theory for 'reading' with the trump cards....... maybe add another layer of meaning.


Bee

I felt I couldn't use the Devil or the Tower because they are not present in the Visconti-Sforza. Otherwise, the Devil would be the obvious choice for the Cauda Draconis.

C insists in his first post that some of the images in the VS are "empty", implying they can be discarded. I have taken those to be the Star, Moon and Sun, at least, but the rest I can't decide - Virtues? In any case, it seems arbitrary, especially if you include the Devil.

[Bernice]

Ross G Caldwell: I felt I couldn't use the Devil or the Tower because they are not present in the Visconti-Sforza.

You're absolutly correct - my bad. I temporarily forgot that this idea is being specifically applied to the Visconti-Sforza.

So, should we now consider that either the commissioner or the cardmaker(painter) of the Visconti-Sforza deck added the 'empty' images in order to hide the geomantic cards, and their 'secret' import? If so why, what is the secret message being conveyed?

Bee

["C"]

...since there is quite a lot in your posts I will do them one by one to avoid any confusion so its possible...

C