Old Astrology=Tarot cards

**Cerulean** · 05-04-2003

I think this is more from a Golden Dawn modified view of astrology, not historically ancient (Babylonian/Chacadean/Greco Roman) correspondences. The historical astrology does only use seven planets. I'm pulling the modern modified listings from Mary Greer's Tarot for Yourself, Essential Magic (Aromatherapy) and Joseph Martin's Quest Tarot pocket laminated card summary of card to astrology.
Majors first, Minors than courts
Majors
Uranus-Fool
Magician-Mercury
High-Priestess-Moon
Empress-Venus
Emporer-Aries
Hierophant-Taurus
Lovers-Gemini
Chariot-Cancer
Strength/Lust-Leo
Hermit-Virgo
Justice/Adjustment-Libra
Death-Scorpio
Temperance/Art-Sagitarius
Devil-Capricorn
Star-Aquarius
Moon-Pieces
Sun-Sun
Judgement-Pluto
World-Saturn

Minors will be similar to the trio assigned in astrology that uses decanates...courts might be from Thoth?

**Cerulean** · 05-04-2003

2S-Moon-Libra
3S-Saturn-Libra
4S-Jupiter-Libra
5S-Venus-Aquarius
6S-Mercury-Aquarius
7S-Moon-Aquarius
8S-Jupiter-Gemini
9S-Mars-Gemini
10S-Sun-Gemini

2W-Mars-Aries
3W-Sun- Aries
4W-Venus-Aries
5W-Saturn-Leo
6W-Jupiter-Leo
7W-Mars-Leo
8W-Mercury-Sagitarius
9W-Sun-Sagitarius
10W-Saturn-Sagitarius

2C-Venus-Cancer
3C-Mercury-Cancer
4C-Moon-Cancer
5C-Mars-Scorpio
6C-Sun-Scorpio
7C-Venus-Scorpio
8C-Saturn-Pisces
9C-Jupiter-Pisces
10C-Mars-Pisces

2PJupiter-Capricorn
3P-Mars-Capricorn
4P-Sun-Capricorn
5P-Mercury-Taurus
6P-Moon-Taurus
7P-Saturn-Taurus
8P-Sun-Virgo
9P-Venus-Virgo
10P-Mercury-Virgo

**Cerulean** · 05-04-2003

Aries-Queen of Wands
Taurus-King of Pentacles
Gemini-Knight of Swords
Cancer-Queen of Cups
Leo-King of Wands
Virgo-Knight of Pentacles
Libra-Queen of Swords
Scorpio-King of Cups
Saggitarius-Knight of Wands
Capricorn-Queen of Pentacles
Aquarius-King of Swords
Pisces-Knight of Cups.

While some of the above came from Mary Greer's Tarot For Yourself and Essential Magic (Aromatherapy), her listing also references Crowley and Paul Foster Case. She also says not all the correspondences work with your own instincts, deck or situation---but I hoped this post would be helpful to others, as I hope to write a little on the Oracle of the Radiant Sun, an astrological pack by Carolyn Smith and John Alsop. My interest includes how to relate some of the astrological correspondences with those who come to astrology from tarot-wise areas. So I hope this is helpful.

Thanks for your patience!

Mari H.

Demonesse · 05-04-2003

Thank you for the Astrological Correspondences = Tarot. Very interesting to see how the authors have matched the signs/planets to their respective Tarot cards. Cancer for example as Queen of Cups seems quite well placed. I agree, though, that some of the correspondences don't really work for me intuition-wise. I listed a few below, as well as my suggestions:

10W-Saturn-Sagitarius (I would have put perhaps Saturn-Capricorn)

Capricorn-Queen of Pentacles (Taurus)

World-Saturn (Jupiter)

Chariot-Cancer (Aries/Sagitarius)

Hierophant-Taurus (Aquarius)

Uranus-Fool (Earth)

Devil-Capricorn (Capricorn or Scorpio)

***Minderwiz*** · 06-04-2003

Linking Tarot cards with Astrology is always going to prove tricky because they have different origins - though it's highly likely that many Tarot practioners were also Astrologers.

The Golden Dawn basically divided 22 trumps into Seven planets, 12 signs and three (out of 4) elements. They didn't use the outer planets - instead they had

Fool = Air
Hanged Man = Water
Judgement = Fire

The entire Major Arcana was said to represent Earth.

Even so there are still arguments about this allocation - should the outer planets be included as some of the above systems do?

When it comes to the Court Cards and the Minors you can just about make anything fit - even the argument about which suits represent Fire and Air is still going.

It comes down to personal feel - do you use say Queens as the Cardinal signs - Cardinal Water (Cancer) = Queen of Cups?

I've always fancied the King of Cups as Pisces, but that's a mutable sign and most seem to allocate the mutables to the Knights (Princes). I suppose the answer is if it works for you then keep to it.

Rusty Neon · 06-04-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Minderwiz

The Golden Dawn basically divided 22 trumps into Seven planets, 12 signs and three (out of 4) elements. They didn't use the outer planets - instead they had

Fool = Air
Hanged Man = Water
Judgement = Fire

The entire Major Arcana was said to represent Earth.

I had always thought that the Golden Dawn viewed the Major Arcana as Spirit or Ether, via-à-vis the Fire, Water, Earth, Air of the minor arcana's suits.

**Cerulean** · 06-04-2003

I think many different and modern practioners pull from old Golden Dawn sources, so I cited combinations mostly from Mary Greer and Joseph Martin--your reading might be from other sources or your tarot may disagree with me.
The reason I was trying to get a small handle on this is I'm very interested in using the astrology deck of the Oracle of the Radiant Sun with another tarot. At the moment, I matched the oracle in a card pull with another art tarot---but it was more myself matching up the prettiness of the pictures and small size of the cards.
Even though there are 84 cards in the astrology deck, there's not a clear correspondence to tarot cards, as you have commented upon...
When I do get a card in the tarot pack-say 10 of Swords, which is Sun in Gemini---I pulled a match with the Sun in Gemini from the Oracle of the Radiant Sun. Kind of quirky, and one has to scramble to remember in a Rider Waite Smith style deck, the dawn is rising to reveal the aftermath of the horror. Sun in Gemini isn't the easiest explanation, more of a challenge to create a poem or story.
To add to this instance, if I had a spread with a 10 of Swords and the Lovers, I'll have to also use the Sun in Gemini card from the oracle to match the Lovers Card...can you hear me telling someone, "Well, to be honest, this looks like a Romeo and Juliet story." I'll experiment some more.
Maybe I should only mix deck readings for a final outcome or a simple three card reading.

Rusty Neon · 06-04-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Mari_Hoshizaki
I think many different and modern practioners pull from old Golden Dawn sources, so I cited combinations mostly from Mary Greer and Joseph Martin--your reading might be from other sources or your tarot may disagree with me.

Mari ... The best source for GD is the source itself (e.g., Regardie's Golden Dawn book which contains many of the GD manuscripts, some of which you can also find on the internet, like Book "T"), rather than secondary sources such as the writings of Greer or Martin.

The GD papers show:

Fool = Air
Hanged Man = Water
Judgement = Fire

Using the new planets in tarot correspondences is a post-GD innovation. Not that there is anything wrong with new planets .... or post-GD innovations.

Hope this helps.

Best regards
RustyNeon

**Cerulean** · 06-04-2003

I've heard someone-Lon Duquette? Michael Kraig(Llewellyn?) speak fondly of the GD Treatise, if this is the one that is almost an encyclopedia in itself?
I'm running to pick up one from a small outlet that I think I saw it...
Mari H>

Rusty Neon · 06-04-2003

Mari ... Many of the GD papers in Regardie's encylopedic book don't treat explictly of tarot but can be useful in any event. Many of the GD papers that are most directly related to tarot have been assembled by Wang in his book to accompany his Golden Dawn tarot deck. As mentioned, you can also find the GD's Book "T" on the web. By the way, Wang's other book _The Qabalistic Tarot_ is probably the most accurate secondary source on GD views of the tarot. Also check out www.supertarot.co.uk, but watch for possible Crowley innovations to GD views as Paul follows Crowley's Thoth deck quite closely.

I'm still a Neanderthal when it comes to astrology. For relating astrology to tarot, get a good introductory astrology book. Personally, I really like Fairfield's _Choice-Centered Astrology_ because it uses mix-and-match phrases for constructing planet/sign, sign/house, and planet/house combinations. A good horary astrology book can also be inspirational for tarot, e.g., _Horary Astrology Plain & Simple_ by Anthony Louis. Hamaker-Zondag's book on horary also looked good from my quick perusal at the store.

** Last edited to correct the internet link (stray comma).

Cerulean Repose in a Eve of Gold... Join Date: 26 Apr 2002 Location: Calif., USA Posts: 9,338	Old Astrology=Tarot cards I think this is more from a Golden Dawn modified view of astrology, not historically ancient (Babylonian/Chacadean/Greco Roman) correspondences. The historical astrology does only use seven planets. I'm pulling the modern modified listings from Mary Greer's Tarot for Yourself, Essential Magic (Aromatherapy) and Joseph Martin's Quest Tarot pocket laminated card summary of card to astrology. Majors first, Minors than courts Majors Uranus-Fool Magician-Mercury High-Priestess-Moon Empress-Venus Emporer-Aries Hierophant-Taurus Lovers-Gemini Chariot-Cancer Strength/Lust-Leo Hermit-Virgo Justice/Adjustment-Libra Death-Scorpio Temperance/Art-Sagitarius Devil-Capricorn Star-Aquarius Moon-Pieces Sun-Sun Judgement-Pluto World-Saturn Minors will be similar to the trio assigned in astrology that uses decanates...courts might be from Thoth? __________________ Still, cerulean surges... where, as sunset lingers Eve with golden fingers... Hector A. Stuart South Sea Dreamer, 1886 Last edited by Cerulean; 06-04-2003 at 07:21.

05-04-2003	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #1

Cerulean Repose in a Eve of Gold... Join Date: 26 Apr 2002 Location: Calif., USA Posts: 9,338	Minors 2S-Moon-Libra 3S-Saturn-Libra 4S-Jupiter-Libra 5S-Venus-Aquarius 6S-Mercury-Aquarius 7S-Moon-Aquarius 8S-Jupiter-Gemini 9S-Mars-Gemini 10S-Sun-Gemini 2W-Mars-Aries 3W-Sun- Aries 4W-Venus-Aries 5W-Saturn-Leo 6W-Jupiter-Leo 7W-Mars-Leo 8W-Mercury-Sagitarius 9W-Sun-Sagitarius 10W-Saturn-Sagitarius 2C-Venus-Cancer 3C-Mercury-Cancer 4C-Moon-Cancer 5C-Mars-Scorpio 6C-Sun-Scorpio 7C-Venus-Scorpio 8C-Saturn-Pisces 9C-Jupiter-Pisces 10C-Mars-Pisces 2PJupiter-Capricorn 3P-Mars-Capricorn 4P-Sun-Capricorn 5P-Mercury-Taurus 6P-Moon-Taurus 7P-Saturn-Taurus 8P-Sun-Virgo 9P-Venus-Virgo 10P-Mercury-Virgo __________________ Still, cerulean surges... where, as sunset lingers Eve with golden fingers... Hector A. Stuart South Sea Dreamer, 1886

05-04-2003	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #2

Cerulean Repose in a Eve of Gold... Join Date: 26 Apr 2002 Location: Calif., USA Posts: 9,338	Suggested courts/astrology Aries-Queen of Wands Taurus-King of Pentacles Gemini-Knight of Swords Cancer-Queen of Cups Leo-King of Wands Virgo-Knight of Pentacles Libra-Queen of Swords Scorpio-King of Cups Saggitarius-Knight of Wands Capricorn-Queen of Pentacles Aquarius-King of Swords Pisces-Knight of Cups. While some of the above came from Mary Greer's Tarot For Yourself and Essential Magic (Aromatherapy), her listing also references Crowley and Paul Foster Case. She also says not all the correspondences work with your own instincts, deck or situation---but I hoped this post would be helpful to others, as I hope to write a little on the Oracle of the Radiant Sun, an astrological pack by Carolyn Smith and John Alsop. My interest includes how to relate some of the astrological correspondences with those who come to astrology from tarot-wise areas. So I hope this is helpful. Thanks for your patience! Mari H. __________________ Still, cerulean surges... where, as sunset lingers Eve with golden fingers... Hector A. Stuart South Sea Dreamer, 1886

05-04-2003	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #3

*Minderwiz* Student of Astrology Moderator Join Date: 20 Apr 2002 Location: Wigan, UK Posts: 6,065	Linking Tarot cards with Astrology is always going to prove tricky because they have different origins - though it's highly likely that many Tarot practioners were also Astrologers. The Golden Dawn basically divided 22 trumps into Seven planets, 12 signs and three (out of 4) elements. They didn't use the outer planets - instead they had Fool = Air Hanged Man = Water Judgement = Fire The entire Major Arcana was said to represent Earth. Even so there are still arguments about this allocation - should the outer planets be included as some of the above systems do? When it comes to the Court Cards and the Minors you can just about make anything fit - even the argument about which suits represent Fire and Air is still going. It comes down to personal feel - do you use say Queens as the Cardinal signs - Cardinal Water (Cancer) = Queen of Cups? I've always fancied the King of Cups as Pisces, but that's a mutable sign and most seem to allocate the mutables to the Knights (Princes). I suppose the answer is if it works for you then keep to it. __________________ Minderwiz Wer meines Speeres Spittze furchtet durchschreite das Feuer nie! Wotan, Die Walkure, Act III, Scene 3

06-04-2003	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #5

Cerulean Repose in a Eve of Gold... Join Date: 26 Apr 2002 Location: Calif., USA Posts: 9,338	I think many different and modern practioners pull from old Golden Dawn sources, so I cited combinations mostly from Mary Greer and Joseph Martin--your reading might be from other sources or your tarot may disagree with me. The reason I was trying to get a small handle on this is I'm very interested in using the astrology deck of the Oracle of the Radiant Sun with another tarot. At the moment, I matched the oracle in a card pull with another art tarot---but it was more myself matching up the prettiness of the pictures and small size of the cards. Even though there are 84 cards in the astrology deck, there's not a clear correspondence to tarot cards, as you have commented upon... When I do get a card in the tarot pack-say 10 of Swords, which is Sun in Gemini---I pulled a match with the Sun in Gemini from the Oracle of the Radiant Sun. Kind of quirky, and one has to scramble to remember in a Rider Waite Smith style deck, the dawn is rising to reveal the aftermath of the horror. Sun in Gemini isn't the easiest explanation, more of a challenge to create a poem or story. To add to this instance, if I had a spread with a 10 of Swords and the Lovers, I'll have to also use the Sun in Gemini card from the oracle to match the Lovers Card...can you hear me telling someone, "Well, to be honest, this looks like a Romeo and Juliet story." I'll experiment some more. Maybe I should only mix deck readings for a final outcome or a simple three card reading. __________________ Still, cerulean surges... where, as sunset lingers Eve with golden fingers... Hector A. Stuart South Sea Dreamer, 1886

06-04-2003	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #7

Demonesse Citizen Join Date: 29 Sep 2002 Location: Drowned beneath the foul, foul waves... Posts: 1,156	Thank you for the Astrological Correspondences = Tarot. Very interesting to see how the authors have matched the signs/planets to their respective Tarot cards. Cancer for example as Queen of Cups seems quite well placed. I agree, though, that some of the correspondences don't really work for me intuition-wise. I listed a few below, as well as my suggestions: 10W-Saturn-Sagitarius (I would have put perhaps Saturn-Capricorn) Capricorn-Queen of Pentacles (Taurus) World-Saturn (Jupiter) Chariot-Cancer (Aries/Sagitarius) Hierophant-Taurus (Aquarius) Uranus-Fool (Earth) Devil-Capricorn (Capricorn or Scorpio)

05-04-2003	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #4

Cerulean Repose in a Eve of Gold... Join Date: 26 Apr 2002 Location: Calif., USA Posts: 9,338	Thank you! I've heard someone-Lon Duquette? Michael Kraig(Llewellyn?) speak fondly of the GD Treatise, if this is the one that is almost an encyclopedia in itself? I'm running to pick up one from a small outlet that I think I saw it... Mari H> __________________ Still, cerulean surges... where, as sunset lingers Eve with golden fingers... Hector A. Stuart South Sea Dreamer, 1886

06-04-2003	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #9

Rusty Neon Citizen Join Date: 12 Mar 2003 Location: Land of Snow and Ice (O Canada) Posts: 4,843	Mari ... Many of the GD papers in Regardie's encylopedic book don't treat explictly of tarot but can be useful in any event. Many of the GD papers that are most directly related to tarot have been assembled by Wang in his book to accompany his Golden Dawn tarot deck. As mentioned, you can also find the GD's Book "T" on the web. By the way, Wang's other book _The Qabalistic Tarot_ is probably the most accurate secondary source on GD views of the tarot. Also check out www.supertarot.co.uk, but watch for possible Crowley innovations to GD views as Paul follows Crowley's Thoth deck quite closely. I'm still a Neanderthal when it comes to astrology. For relating astrology to tarot, get a good introductory astrology book. Personally, I really like Fairfield's _Choice-Centered Astrology_ because it uses mix-and-match phrases for constructing planet/sign, sign/house, and planet/house combinations. A good horary astrology book can also be inspirational for tarot, e.g., _Horary Astrology Plain & Simple_ by Anthony Louis. Hamaker-Zondag's book on horary also looked good from my quick perusal at the store. ** Last edited to correct the internet link (stray comma). Last edited by Rusty Neon; 06-04-2003 at 17:19.

06-04-2003	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #10

Support the Forum via Google Adsense
	#ADS