[Melissa`]

Hey everyone,

I did a search on this deck within all the posts here. They all seemed to be more about people 'getting' the deck than talking about it.. so I started this thread to ask a few questions. Hope that is alright.

I just bought this deck tonight (6 decks in one week, I have a problem ) . Well all I have done is look through them. I have to say on the initial experience I love the artwork and they don't seem very hard to read themselves. I just know nothing about I Ching. The keywords at the bottom sort of let me down. At the same time the black lines that run around the image itself helps to keep my eyes on the image and not the words. After looking through them a few times I hardly noticed the wording because of those lines.

I was wondering from those that do have this oracle:

How has it worked for you?
Was it fairly easy for you to catch on to I Ching if you had no clue about it before?
Any experiences you might want to share?

Thanks ahead for any comments or help!

Blessings,
Amaya

[RAVENAL]

Hi Amaya...

I have this oracle...almost 2 mths now...I think it's wonderful...such beautiful art/energy and a philosophy I resonate with...I was pulling the 1 card pearl of wisdom daily...journaling...but as I am not diciplined and structured...and don't really choose to be...I just do this as it calls to me...they have been accurate though...sometimes on a more intimate scale other times with a wider view...

the readings have been done for family and friends and are phenomonally insightful and dead on target for accuracy...
surprising us all...I do read the cards as reversals and will draw another card sometimes for clarification... I like to throw the coins and read the changing lines as well...

there is something that happens to the hexagrams with a reversed card...that upside down focus changes the hexagram...into another one...it is something that I have been reading as a new hexagram/card draw just to see how this applies or plays out...not enough to say it is an effective technique yet...but I do see a relationship in the overall pattern that hints this may prove true...sometimes the new card is a card before the original...sometimes it turns out to be the card after...this is different than throwing the coins or reading the changing lines...

I have also used the wonderful and vibrant energy of certain cards to send to others as I send energy and healing to friends and family long distance...my quartz crystal bowls easily pick up the images vibration and underlying energy/archetype and transfer it to them...

but mostly I explore the cards for myself...I am introspective...and meditate or shift consiousness easily...even in reading these cards they first draw me within them where I have learned astonishing things...they are wise and gentle teachers...very supportive...I love them...the words have faded for me too...it is all about the image and it's energy message that I connect with...but I am a visual artist so sight and then feeling are my ways to find their truths......

[Melissa`]

Thank you for replying, Ravenal.

I felt that i would enjoy this deck. After reading your reply it has encouraged me to set more time off for this deck. Thank you.
Perhaps when I have done some work with it, I will be able to share some experience of mine with you. As you have done here for me.. I appreciate it..

Blessings,
Amaya

[Ravenswing]

amaya--

I've had this onefor a while-- beautifully delicate art...

I usually just pull a card for the general tone of the day. And so far it has not failed me. Sometimes it was talking about something I wasn't thinking of, and I got a bit confused.. but, that's tha nature of an oracle...

Recently, I've started something a bit different. I pull two cards now. And I read them just as if I had tossed coins to develop the second from the first. It seems to me that the deck should be able to be used without additional tools...

To give you a concrete example, I'll do my daily draws right now...

(my cards sort of clump up. do you have that problem with yours??)

the first card is "Before Completion".... the second is "Retreat".

For the reading, I would first go over the text for Before Completion.

Next, notice which lines change between the two cards. The second and fourth lines change. So I read about those lines under "Before Completion".

Finally, I read the text for "Retreat".

That's how I do it, with cards only. I've tossed out the coins

fly well
raven

[Melissa`]

Hey Ravenswing!

As for the clumping of the cards.. I have no I idea.. I haven't shuffled them yet.

I like your idea.. this I will have to try. Thank you for your imput, I greatly appreciate it.

Did you know anything about I ching before you bought this deck.. or did you pick things up as you began working with it?

Blessings,
Amaya

[Ravenswing]

amaya--

yes, I dabbled with it. I like the poetry and the feel of it. That's the basic reason I got the cards. The few I saw gave me the same feeling as the poetry-- very delicate.

But, like I said, I think one can use the deck as a self-contained oracle. In fact,you might extend the moving line idea in ANY reading, giving you the extra dimension of transition between card positions.

For example, if you do a three card reading of past, present, future and use the motion of lines, you could consider the reading as:

past, motion into present, present, movment into future, future. Sometimes know the how of where you get can be more enlightening than knowing just the where.

fly well
Ravenswing

[Melissa`]

Ravenswing,
I finally sat down and worked a small bit with this deck a few minutes ago. Yes I noticed the clumping in the cards when shuffling. It wasfairly annoying at first then it slowly settled out after a moment. I only drew one card though. One baby step at a time, at least that was my thought when shuffling.
Anyways.. I drew the Development card. I didn't have anything specific on my mind when I was shuffling so I am taking this draw into account that it means the development relationship between the deck and myself. I am pleased with this after studying the image first then reading the book. Especially where in the book it says "It always takes time to learn the ways of another; the progress of that learning is like a spontaneously unfolding dance that must be given the space to develop in synchronicity if it is going to be supportive to both of the individuals involved." Which makes sence in that I have no clue on the system of the I Ching so this oracle is almost me diving in head first but will take time to develope an understanding of it.

Blessings,
Amaya

[RAVENAL]

Back to interpretation...by the numbers...

the numbers always speak to me...to begin...the intuitive choice I made to draw 2 cards occurred because I was seeking balance...and 2 has this significance for me...so 2 was the number of cards chosen...no forethought really just pulled 2...

and the cards drawn...5...and 40...a big jump between the two numbers...suggesting a long way to go for acheiving balance...possibly...but not my interpretation...I drop the zero and add the cards for 9...this for me means completion of a cycle...right at the cusptime...finish line...moving soon into another order/cycle...

and the zero certainly echos this theme for me too..I look at zeros as a step up into the next higher level of energy/movement in natural cycles...and the divine "void" like potiential where things are still unformed and anything is possible and yet to be manifested...a creative potiential kind of energy...

the 5...4 progression then seems reversed...a backward step...suggesting the almost backward timing...like the title/name...card 5..."Waiting"...

I look at the shapes of numbers also...the 5 has linear vertical and horizontal line aspects...stability...in the portion of the image I qualify as " the above"...portion of the number image/shape...straight lines as masculine energy/directed...

and the circular bottom section is feminine energy...curved lines...female...open...not complete...spiral...receptive...in the position of the number I see as " the below"...

sort of an "as above so below" distribution of energy representative of fundamental cosmic forces at work within/behind the numbers image...and thru life experience...and in the cards...which bear the numbers...

in 5 this is a balanced dynamic...male and female...progression from the above...the male directed energy into/becomming the below...female receptive semicircle energy shape...5 for me is about becomming...discovery...exploration...change...

the number 4...is all straight linear... masculine/directed energy... verticals...horizontals...suggesting stability in the structure...
dynamic movement enters this picture as the diagonal...enclosing space...forming a triangle...triadic energy...godstuff...in "the above" position...

the divine...moving into another plane...via the crossover point/crossroads...center to the number...stillpoint
...switchplace...and becomming partially manifest in "the below"...add the perfect zero...void/divine/cycle energy... for 40 and that shows and says it all in this cards title/name "Deliverance"...

the number 4 for me is about order...and structure...even containment...but with dynamism and potiential movement because of the crossing point and the diagonal/movement energy...the most perfect stability of the triangle...above... shifting to...below...and forming/building new structure...the energy has manifested just 2 sides...still open...creating but not yet complete...

and the addition of the 5 + 4 = 9...nine image/energy is the circle/cycle perfected and complete...full...in the above position and now ready...moving into diagonal/dynamic grounding and potiential new beginning...at the below position...earthed...new cycle starting...and the continuation of a spiral growing larger...this is the shape of 9...

for me this is very much mirroring my life changes and experience over the last few days...it has promise and blessings...the waiting and contemplation taking place releasing the old energys and birthing the new...changing...yet still the same at the core level...and forseeing the best possible future...one of joining with and answers from spirit...my acceptance of it...of deliverance...promise...new growth on my horizon...newtime...newday...new place to start/re-start...new cycle energy...

the number 2...the balance...for me...as number image...this is an open semicircle/portion...spiral...female divine energy moving from the above position diagionally down into the below position to become the most stable base...a horizontal straight/line masculine/directed energy...fully grounded...manifesting in the earth plane...with potiential horizontal forward motion...still connected/drawing from the divine female energy spiral...

it is balanced male and female...and balance between "as above so below"...not really mirrors...different...with curved lines becomming straight lines...shifting...flowing together as opposite ends/poles/sides...of the same thing...spirit/energy movement from heaven to earth...TRUE BALANCE of opposites...really not opposite but different faces/expressions of the selfsame underlying thing...cosmic energy...the divine...spirit into matter...taking all avenues in exploration...

talk soon of the symbols and changing lines...these cards are still playing out for me...no call to draw others yet...be well...enjoy...more later...

[RAVENAL]

Hello again...

I got involved in reallife situations and could not find the time to post before now...but back to the way I use the symbols and changing lines...

the symbols are the elemental signatures in the left lower corner...and I see them as energy shapes something like the numbers...they are very well explained on pgs... 30-31...of the book...there are many listed correspondences and I compare what each trigram shows...noting the things similar and the differences...most times I see the connections and patterns...but not always...and then I look at the direction of the glyphs energy movement...read from the bottom...and this gives me a feeling for how the energy plays out thru the cards... as these are elemental forces...I relate this to nature and real world/time/place cycles...

as someone attuned and living close to nature I am aware of these sometimes subtle energys and very directly involved in many others...there are always the interconnections...no real separations but each moving always and shifting into others...for me a complete and unified system...balanced and always in motion...changing...stability in this not paradox...

and the central top yin/yang circle filled with colors...these speak to me of the complementary balances and associations that happens between colors...some dominant...advancing...moving forward...others receeding...some quiet and still...some with noticible temperature...hot...cold and all phases inbetween...some colors harder...masculine...and the soft and gentle ones more feminine...again just another picture of the changes the tensions the connections and interrelations which colors have to each other and everything else...the numbers given in these lists for the trigram correspondances seem odd to me though...I will have to study this some more for a better understanding...

sometimes I read the changing lines...sometimes I don't...always with a reversal and if I see a card I am having trouble relating to or just desire further information...I will pull another card for clairafication and read the changing lines that form between them...I have thrown the coins for this and it hasn't failed me and my husbands and daughters readings have been so true...astonishingly accurate...amazing...in depth and so closely related to present time/real life people and situations...
lessons...instructive advice...and such a wonderful teacher...a true friend...

I was surprised to see the way you RAVEN read the changing lines and how you choose them...an easy and less time consuming method...I may try this...simplicity is something I relate to and treasure...and more time is something I would like more of...

but I read only the lines that match the coin throws as changing lines...this may seem awkward and not necessarily logical...but this is not a western system and it is ancient...around for so long because it works...so following tradition...which is really strange for me as I am really more avante guarde...I use 3 heads in coins as a yang line meaning...and 3 coin tails as yin...then if they come up the same...lines and coins match...yin and yin or yang and yang...the balance is off...no opposites in harmony...too upset as they are the same..."actually out of balance"...top heavy...and so the shift occurs to change the line...the balance of opposites resets...this is described in the book pgs... 34-37...but not very clearly...this sameness and switch becomes my changing line...

RAVEN...in reading about your system...using the changing lines... I see a difference...would you care to explain how you make this choice of which line changes...to me it seems unclear...any system should be made your own of course...whatever your choices...comfort level and understanding...so please I am curious... interested in your way of arrival at reading these changing lines...

AMAYA...and what is the system you are using...or maybe you are not reading the changing lines at all...a more indepth sample reading would be very interesting...your interpretations...there is always something new to be learned by seeing what others are doing...and what do you both do with reversals...

[Ravenswing]

Ravenal--

I compliment you on your analysis of numbers by their shapes... This is something that had never occurred to me, yet... there is much sense in what you say here. Much to contemplate...

As to my procedure...

We can start with a hexagram and, by coin toss or sticks, determine which of these lines move. The text will give us meanings for the lines in motion. At last we arrive at a second hexagram-- the result of those moving lines.

What I suggest is that we can draw one card-- the original hexagram-- and a second card-- the final hexagram. By comparing the two, we determine which lines changed in the transformation of the first to the second. (I feel like I might be fuddling up here with the wording...)

Am I making sense here?

fly well
Raven