The Sapphist Tarot

[Alamaris]

[VERY tentative title. It sounds clunky, but it's the best I can think of at the moment. ]

Ever since I started reading tarot, I wanted to make a deck -- and more than anything, I wanted to make a lesbian tarot deck. Being an artist, a writer, AND a tarot reader has definite perks. However, I wanted to wait until I knew I could a) handle such a big project, and b) be confident enough with my artwork.

Well, I'm there.

I first mentioned the idea of a lesbian tarot deck in the discussion about women-only tarot decks over here. I described it as "a down to earth (i.e., not preachy or new agey or what have you), multi cultural, butches-and-femmes-and-everything-in-between lesbian deck with anatomically correct (and diverse) artwork," and said that "I have no interest in doing just another deck filled with goddess spirituality and Sheila Na-gigs -- or, on the other hand, one filled with perky Barbie dolls who have one facial expression." The few responses I got were positive, and just encouraging enough to get me really, really excited about it. It's one thing when you've had a deck in your head for years, quietly breeding ideas, and quite another when people you respect say, "Yeah, sounds cool. Go for it!"

So, this will be the creation thread for the deck!

Thus far I'm mostly brainstorming, and I keep hitting one major roadblock. I read with RWS, Thoth, Marseilles, and everything in between. That being said, my goal for this deck is accessibility.

My first question for you folks is, if you're interested in the sounds of the deck, what sort of base would you like to see? (When I say base, I mean base for the meanings, not necessarily the images -- even if I go with RWS, I have lots of ideas for reinterpretation of old, overused themes.) RWS meanings? Thoth? Something entirely different (although I don't know what that would look like)? Any thoughts on the matter are more than welcome.

If all goes well, after some input, I'll have some sketches to show you folks in a hurry! This deck is taking over my brain -- I'm even dreaming about it.

[Metafizzypop]

Hi Alamaris. Sounds like an ambitious project. Fun, too. I would probably call it the Sappho Tarot just because it rhymes. Just a thought.

Anyway, about the meanings. Speaking for myself, I'm a little tired of the RWS system. It seems that most new decks use those meanings, or something close. There's also the Thoth, but I find it a little cold. I don't think it suits a deck with a lesbian theme at all.

I don't think you need to base your deck on a pre-existing system. What I was thinking about was Sappho herself. I read a lot of her poetry years ago, and it was pretty intense stuff. There's a lot of meaning in it. What I would do for this deck is go through Sappho's writings, and look for "sound bites." Things that stand out to you, and make a strong impression. And then base a card on that sentence. I think there's enough meaning in Sappho's poetry to fill all the pips.

Just an idea. Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best of luck.

[baba-prague]

Oh goodness, I hesitate to say anything because I know that a lot of people here argue against RWS. But the fact is that it's become THE standard system (this is even becoming true in much of Europe) and so if you don't base a deck at least broadly on RWS, you are asking users to learn a whole new system - fine for a very serious user but those who are beginners or only use tarot occasionally will be reluctant to put in a lot of extra time to learn one deck.

Because of this the fact is that the deck will be more accessible and probably find more buyers if it follows RWS - like it or not (personally, I like RWS very much so for me this isn't a problem). But you don't need to follow it rigidly, you can reinterpret it so that it suits the theme.

Anyway, good luck with the deck, I'll be very interested to see some cards.

[Metafizzypop]

Baba-prague, that's a very compelling argument in favor of using the RWS system. Yet I do see decks getting published that don't use that system, or at least, have taken so many liberties with it that it's hard to recognize the RWS influence. Crow's Magick, Vertigo, and the Alchemical always have me reaching for the book.

I think it's OK to have some variation out there in the world of tarot. Just to keep people on their toes, and make them keep learning. I agree totally that an unfamiliar system could turn some people away. On the other hand, the completely-familiar stands a chance of eventually doing the same thing.

[baba-prague]

Originally Posted by Metafizzypop

Baba-prague, that's a very compelling argument in favor of using the RWS system. Yet I do see decks getting published that don't use that system, or at least, have taken so many liberties with it that it's hard to recognize the RWS influence. Crow's Magick, Vertigo, and the Alchemical always have me reaching for the book.

Yes, it's perfectly possible to bring out a successful deck that isn't based on RWS, but it's just more of a commercial risk. It depends what sort of audience the OP is looking for.

As I say, it isn't a huge issue for us because we like RWS in any case - our interest is in improvisations around a theme I suppose, and we've never felt restricted by RWS. But I do fully understand why some people get tired of it.

[Cat*]

I'd also argue for basing the deck more or less on the RWS system - with lots of room for reinterpretations and deviations from it where they seem appropriate/necessary/interesting.

I believe that a lesbian-themed deck will very likely NOT be someone's sole reading deck for everyone and every situation. Therefore I'd stick with the most well-known tarot system (even though I'm sure someone will be able to argue that the RWS is not a world-wide standard...) and would focus on retelling the old RWS "stories" with a new twist. The good thing is, if there are any RWS cards you never really liked, you are free to change them to something else.

I'll be curiously following the development of this deck! Thanks for even taking on the project!

[Le Fanu]

I shall be following the development of this deck attentively. I'm really curious to see how it pans out. I think the market/tarot community needs a lesbian deck.

I have never created a tarot deck, but if I did, I think I would use the RWS system as broadly or as tightly as I wanted. I think it is a system which allows you to adhere (or not) at whatever level you feel comfortable with. In terms of being commercially attractive (do people really go into Waterstones/ Barnes & Noble and sit down on the sofas with half a dozen shrink-wrapped boxes and go off the blurb?), I would say the RWS is where it's at, even though I personally flit comfortably between all three systems depending on my phase.

[zan_chan]

It seems to me that RWS would be the best choice for any sort of theme deck, lesbian or otherwise-- illustrated minors mean 56 more chances for you to develop your theme. Isn't a themed Marseille basically a Majors-only deck with colorful pips thrown in? I'm not quite sure how one might make Marseille or Thoth pips come across as overly lesbian...

Best of luck to you, though. I'll also be cheering from the sidelines, watching your progress. It's definitely time for a good lesbian deck.

[Alamaris]

Originally Posted by baba-prague

But the fact is that it's become THE standard system (this is even becoming true in much of Europe) and so if you don't base a deck at least broadly on RWS, you are asking users to learn a whole new system - fine for a very serious user but those who are beginners or only use tarot occasionally will be reluctant to put in a lot of extra time to learn one deck.

Because of this the fact is that the deck will be more accessible and probably find more buyers if it follows RWS - like it or not (personally, I like RWS very much so for me this isn't a problem). But you don't need to follow it rigidly, you can reinterpret it so that it suits the theme.

I agree -- like I said, I want it to be very accessible despite the theme, so I'd rather not expect readers to have to learn a whole new system. Thanks for the input.

Originally Posted by Cat*

I'd also argue for basing the deck more or less on the RWS system - with lots of room for reinterpretations and deviations from it where they seem appropriate/necessary/interesting.

I believe that a lesbian-themed deck will very likely NOT be someone's sole reading deck for everyone and every situation. Therefore I'd stick with the most well-known tarot system (even though I'm sure someone will be able to argue that the RWS is not a world-wide standard...) and would focus on retelling the old RWS "stories" with a new twist. The good thing is, if there are any RWS cards you never really liked, you are free to change them to something else.

I'll be curiously following the development of this deck! Thanks for even taking on the project!

I like the way you put that: "old RWS stories with a new twist." That's what I want the deck to focus on -- old stories, new light! And you're right, it does give me a lot of room to play around.

It's my pleasure! I'm glad to see people are excited about it.

Originally Posted by Le Fanu

I shall be following the development of this deck attentively. I'm really curious to see how it pans out. I think the market/tarot community needs a lesbian deck.

Originally Posted by zan_chan

Best of luck to you, though. I'll also be cheering from the sidelines, watching your progress. It's definitely time for a good lesbian deck.

Le Fanu, zan_chan, thank you for your input! Most especially (and this goes for everyone), thank you for your interest. It's really, really exciting to hear that the market is ready for a deck like (I'm hoping!) this will be.

***

In other news, cards are bombarding me from all over the place. As soon as I realized that crafty-and-new RWS was the way to go, they just jumped me. I have drafts laid down for the Wheel of Fortune, and the Devil has shown up in a big way. In fact, I'd say the preliminary sketch for that one is done! After I get a few more laid out tentatively, I'll throw them up here with some notes.

[Wendywu]

I also will be following this thread - a strong Lesbian tarot will be an interesting and welcome addition to tarot. I work with a female only deck at the moment, although it is not lesbian in theme, and find that the lack of males in the deck isn't noticeable because the energy of the deck is so very strong and forceful in places.

I am another in favour of RWS with twist.




aside for Le Fanu - I sit on the sofas in Waterstones and read chapters of books I'm thinking of buying. Very comfy.