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intuition897 
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Myers Briggs Types and the Court Cards


This is probably on here somewhere else, but I thought I'd try a new thread. If anyone is familiar with the 16 Myers Briggs personality types (Guardians, Rationals, Idealists, and Artisans and their 4 sub-types each) I'm wondering if you have an opinion about the possible correlation to the 16 Tarot court cards. For example, I think that the Guardians are most like the Pentacles suit, earth/materially oriented, traditional, steady, reliable, sometimes stubborn... Of the Guardian sub-types, I think that the Queen of Pents is most like the Guardian Protector. The QoP strikes me as the ultimate Mom-type who RULES her household, so this seems to fit.

The types are all freely googleable. What do you all think? Here are the different types:

ESTJ - Guardian Supervisor
ISTJ - Guardian Inspector
ESFJ - Guardian Provider
ISFJ - Guardian Protector
ESTP - Artisan Promoter
ISTP - Artisan Crafter
ESFP - Artisan Performer
ISFP - Artisan Composer
ENTJ - Rational Fieldmarshal
INTJ - Rational Mastermind
ENTP - Rational Inventor
INTP - Rational Architect
ENFJ - Idealist Teacher
INFJ - Idealist Counselor
ENFP - Idealist Champion
INFP - Idealist Healer
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sapienza 
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There is an excellent article here on the Association for Tarot Studies website, written by jmd. It's the method I use.
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northsea 
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I've looked at a few ways, 1)as arranged by others, 2)assigned piecemeal by the standard "fortune-teller" meanings found in LWBs (and finding it strange that they do match up quite well), 3)my own arrangement based on the 4 qualities: if I recall right, Js to kings and queens, Ts to kings and knights, Es to Cups (or maybe Swords) and Wands, Ns to Cups and Swords.
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Amanda_04 
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I'm an INFJ and tend to come up as the King of Pentacles or the Queen of Swords in spreads.

ETA: Forgot! My hubby is an ENTJ and he comes up as the King of Wands.

Last edited by Amanda_04; 08-03-2010 at 15:34.
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irmata 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intuition897
ESTJ - Guardian Supervisor
ISTJ - Guardian Inspector
ESFJ - Guardian Provider
ISFJ - Guardian Protector
ESTP - Artisan Promoter
ISTP - Artisan Crafter
ESFP - Artisan Performer
ISFP - Artisan Composer
ENTJ - Rational Fieldmarshal
INTJ - Rational Mastermind
ENTP - Rational Inventor
INTP - Rational Architect
ENFJ - Idealist Teacher
INFJ - Idealist Counselor
ENFP - Idealist Champion
INFP - Idealist Healer
Regardless of other results, for myself I see the types as:

Guardians (Sensing) = Pentacles...} Could possibly work
Artisans (Perceiving) = Wands......} in reverse as well
Rationals (Thinking) = Swords
Idealists (Feeling) = Cups

Then I'd probably assign E(xtrovert) to Knight and King and I(ntrovert) to Princess/Page and Queen.

I find this works well - for myself - for Swords and Cups, But I don't know if I'm entirely happy with Wands and Pents...
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stefficus 
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i tend to think:

sj=pents
sp=wands
nt=swords
nf=cups

apart from that, i haven't yet seen a system i'm entirely satisfied with so i tend to associate whole suits rather than courts specifically. i'll have to check out some of the links!



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intuition897 
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It is confounding, isn't it? Despite the apparent simplicity of the correlations - 16 types to 16 court cards, 4 suits to 4 main types, 4 ranks to 4 sub-types - it's really really difficult to get these pinned down!

Rationals would seem to be Swords because they live in their heads, are all about logic, science, and they love the purity of a neatly defined black-and-white world.

Wands, I think, would probably be the Artisans. Artisans create things; they reach into the ether and pull beauty out of thin air, acting as translators or conduits of divine ideals. They move and act intuitively and do things with passion. They act as lightning rods, merging the spiritual and physical.

The Cups suit would have to be the Idealists who focus on human potential, cooperation, peace, goodwill, and love in all its glorious forms. I think the watery Cups suit has been given a bad rap as being 'weak' or 'wishy-washy' in its gentle approach to things, but then I remember how powerful an element water truly is. It overwhelms the other physical elements in sheer volume over the planet. It may not always happen at once, but water's constancy and versatility as it transforms from one form to the next (liquid, solid or gas) will literally move mountains as it erodes, explodes, or crumbles solid stone. It extinguishes fire, and the wind only makes it more powerful. I think of oceans and tsunamis. So yeah, I think they fit with the Idealists. Idealists are very passionate about their beliefs and tend to think with their hearts.

And the Guardians have to be the Pentacles suit. Grounded, sensually oriented, rooted in the here and now, hard-working, traditional, practical, stick-to-it-iveness, determined and ambitious, organized, methodical, street-smart, and utterly dependable. Guardians/Pentacles/Earth type people are the glue that holds society together.

But beyond these basic categories, I'm not sure how to subcategorize them. Thank you all for your responses. I think it's going to just come down to intuiting which card "feels" right for each type.
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JSNYC 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intuition897
This is probably on here somewhere else, but I thought I'd try a new thread. If anyone is familiar with the 16 Myers Briggs personality types (Guardians, Rationals, Idealists, and Artisans and their 4 sub-types each) I'm wondering if you have an opinion about the possible correlation to the 16 Tarot court cards. For example, I think that the Guardians are most like the Pentacles suit, earth/materially oriented, traditional, steady, reliable, sometimes stubborn... Of the Guardian sub-types, I think that the Queen of Pents is most like the Guardian Protector. The QoP strikes me as the ultimate Mom-type who RULES her household, so this seems to fit.

The types are all freely googleable. What do you all think? Here are the different types:

ESTJ - Guardian Supervisor
ISTJ - Guardian Inspector
ESFJ - Guardian Provider
ISFJ - Guardian Protector
ESTP - Artisan Promoter
ISTP - Artisan Crafter
ESFP - Artisan Performer
ISFP - Artisan Composer
ENTJ - Rational Fieldmarshal
INTJ - Rational Mastermind
ENTP - Rational Inventor
INTP - Rational Architect
ENFJ - Idealist Teacher
INFJ - Idealist Counselor
ENFP - Idealist Champion
INFP - Idealist Healer
Oh yes! I certainly have definate views on this! Especially since I have found most assignments (of the personality types) to be completely and utterly flawed. (The already posted opinions in this thread are much better than anything I have read anywhere else, or in any book.) However, I don't have the time to present a coherant analysis now. (I am sure to stop back!) I will just say that trying to assign all 16 personality types to the 16 court cards is flawed, they don't relate 1-to-1. (Obviously, just my opinion!)

For now, I just wanted to point a serious (although very technical) flaw in the first post. What you listed are the Myers-Briggs personality types as well as the David Keirsey temperaments (and didn't give David Keirsey credit!)

These are the Myers-Briggs personality types: ESTJ, ISTJ, ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTP, ISTP, ESFP, ISFP, ENTJ, INTJ, ENTP, INTP, ENFJ, INFJ, ENFP, INFP.

And these are the David Keisery Temperaments: Artisans, Idealists, Rationals, Guardians (and you also listed the 4 names of the individual personality types within each temperament.)

Here is David Keirsey's website with the descriptions of the 4 temperaments and their personality types: http://www.keirsey.com
(Click on The Four Temperaments at the top of the page.)

The Myers-Briggs types were created in the 50's, David Keirsey created the temperaments that correspond to the Myers-Briggs types in his book, Please Understand Me in the 70's.


ETA:

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefficus
i tend to think:

sj=pents
sp=wands
nt=swords
nf=cups

apart from that, i haven't yet seen a system i'm entirely satisfied with so i tend to associate whole suits rather than courts specifically. i'll have to check out some of the links!
This post is on the right track!

(I think an understanding C. G. Jung and his function types, which these personality types are based on, is necessary to truly make an comprehesive comparison.)



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Last edited by JSNYC; 09-03-2010 at 04:03.
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Metafizzypop 
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OK, how's this as a classification option?

Instead of associating the major categories of personality -- Rationals, Artisans, Idealists, and Guardians -- with the suits of Swords, Wands, Cups, and Pentacles, it could also be done where the categories were associated with the characters. In other words, with the Kings, Queens, Knights, and Pages.

Rationals are the Kings, because they don't like to get emotionally involved in their decision-making.

Queens are the Artisans because they make art out of living.

Knights are the Guardians, because they are protectors.

Pages are people who are still young enough to be Idealists.

But I still wouldn't know how to sub-categorize them though.
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JSNYC 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metafizzypop
OK, how's this as a classification option?

Instead of associating the major categories of personality -- Rationals, Artisans, Idealists, and Guardians -- with the suits of Swords, Wands, Cups, and Pentacles, it could also be done where the categories were associated with the characters. In other words, with the Kings, Queens, Knights, and Pages.

Rationals are the Kings, because they don't like to get emotionally involved in their decision-making.

Queens are the Artisans because they make art out of living.

Knights are the Guardians, because they are protectors.

Pages are people who are still young enough to be Idealists.

But I still wouldn't know how to sub-categorize them though.
I don't think the temperaments can be assigned to the individual court cards... at least that is my first impression. The reason being is that the labels, Artisans, Idealists, Rationals, Guardians do not fully describe the temperaments. Just using the labels, as you did, does work. But if you consider all the differenct facets of the temperaments, confining each temperament to each individual type of court card, would narrow the definitions of the temperaments too much and I don't think they quite fit.

However, I really like your thinking! It is this kind of thinking that leads to a new and better understanding! So please ignore me, and continue!



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