I wonder if people would like to do this? (A Tarot Fable Revealed?)

Cerulean

While the Great Questions thread inspired me to think about a question to ask a real historic deck, I was thinking about this post and am looking at this question:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=2297289&postcount=15

Would you like to draw some cards as Mary suggested and post them here?

And I would invite people to take their favored 'oldie' decks or the one that resonates the best with them and draw their cards...my pick with a historic workalike will have to do for now (Centennial or Original Waite-Smith deck), but I look forward to the return of one of my favorite oldies back to me for a real reading.

I'm thinking of which deck....

Cerulean

(I may try this with an Etteilla Thoth, but lately the "gypsyish" Book of Thoth is telling me tales of a sailor and a one-eyed jack who is perfectly content or will try to misdirect me to assist a fair-haired child from the country. The last fortune predicted my impending marriage to a fashionably worn man of means--which would mean I'd have to divorce my present husband and resign myself to the fate of Jane Eyre's silly cousin Georgina)
 

Tarot Orat

That looks very interesting indeed! I'm up for it if 5 other people are too :)
 

tigerlily

Ooh, interesting! I had to try it out, of course... using the DruidCraft. These are just preliminary thoughts, I'll come back and add whatever comes to me later.

I cut the deck for each part of the myth, that's why one card appeared twice. For each part, I asked, "what does ____ mean?"

1) Toth/Hermes - 4 of Cups, Rx

I was a bit surprised that for a god would only appear a Minor card! Looking at the card reversed, my eye is drawn to the lone hidden cup - which would fit with the hidden knowledge that he guards. I'm also thinking of the trickster aspect of Hermes (Toth not so much... I really think these gods aren't interchangeable or "analogous") who pretends to contemplate the visible three cups while in reality he's guarding/hiding the only "precious" (no Gollum jokes, please) cup. If this card describes his personal style, it wouldn't be so surprising that he'd be hiding serious knowledge in a silly game.

2) wanted to save from destruction - The World

My eye is drawn to the mandorla. I'm reminded of a girdle, fence, the Chinese Wall, protection. Midgard. And, for some reason, of a Lost World, all those myths about Atlantis. I'm also reminded of the image of Shiva (the dancer)...

3) the knowledge of the Golden Age - Prince of Cups

Actually I had hoped the card would tell me what the knowledge of the Golden Age is about. Instead, I see Toth offering his hidden cup to me. The gesture of offering seems to be more important than telling me what this mysterious knoledge is... or perhaps the knowledge consists of knowing how to find a god that fills you with it? How to tap the source?

4) He coded it in sacred markings - 8 of Wands Rx

The reversal again emphasizes certain elements of the card. Upside-down, it looks as if the man is casting some rune or ogham sticks. Since those are much older than Tarot cards, perhaps these were the original images of Toth's wisdom?

5) the story of humanity's journey The Moon

Evolution. We came from the primordial oceans (the crab), crawling on dry land through the eons, developed into mammals (wolf and dog), were domesticated (I'm firmly convinced that proto-humans followed the wolves, not the other way round. We ate what they left behind, and imitated their highly developed social behaviour ;) never reaching their pefection, of course *g*), but we have still a long way ahead.

6) These cards express a cosmology (humanity's place in the universe) - 4 of Cups Rx

Hm. Our place is the same as Toth's? I'll have to think on this card a bit more.

7) Disguised as an innocent game - 7 of Cups Rx

The emphasis is on the reflections in the pond. You can't see the origin of the reflection directly, you only have the reflection to work with. The water's surface is creating distortions, due to its constant movement - that reminds me of the meditation metaphor of having to quieten the mind in order to receive undistorted impressions.

Also, the number of different systems (aka cups) is an illusion. There is only one source.
 

JSNYC

I really like the idea, Cerulean However, I am not sure I quite understand...

So I will just draw some cards and see what happens. And to add to the confusion; I have probably studied The Universal Waite more than both my reading decks combined, but I have never read with it. So this will be my first reading with The Universal Waite:

1) Thoth/Hermes/Mercury : 6 of Wands
The glorious messenger, delivering the message of truth.

2) wanted to save from destruction : The Devil
They say that the greatest trick that the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist. Maybe his greatest trick is convincing the world that he is the only thing that exists, while convincing the world that he doesn't exist. (Or maybe that is how he does it.)

3) the Knowledge of the Golden Age : Ace of Pentacles
The hope of true knowledge, strength, and security.

4) He coded it in sacred markings that tell, through pictures that transcend individual languages, : The Fool
Pictures that only a Fool could read and understand.

5) the story of humanity's journey along the "Royal Road of Life." : 8 of Cups
A long, arduous journey, a journey under the light of the moon, not the sun.

6) These cards express a cosmology, : 2 of Swords
A cosmology that is almost as difficult to see as the real message, due to the constrained, distorted vision of The Devil.

7) disguised as an innocent game. : 2 of Pentacles
The Juggler playing his game...

The 6 of Wands is the only card from the suit of Wands, which emphasizes the action. tigerlily mentioned drawing a minor arcana card for this position too. I believe that indicates that the god or person is not important, they are just the messenger, they are no different from us, they are just fulfilling their function.

The Ace of Pentacles, which represents the Knowledge of the Golden Age, relates to the other card from the suit of Pentacles, the 2 of Pentacles, confirming the knowledge hidden in the innocent game.

I don't use reversed cards so I didn't mark any reversals. But I must mention that when the cards were drawn, only The Devil and The Fool were upright. And the Devil and The Fool represent the nature of the journey.
 

nisaba

<hero-music> This Sounds Like A Job For The <fanfare> Piedmont-Morgan Visconti! <drumroll>.

Er, it is in another room, and I have a lot of internet stuff to do first - forgive me if I join in later?
 

nisaba

Tarot Orat said:
That looks very interesting indeed! I'm up for it if 5 other people are too :)
:bugeyed: That's deucedly odd! <shakes head>

nisaba said:
<hero-music> This Sounds Like A Job For The <fanfare> Piedmont-Morgan Visconti! <drumroll>.

Er, it is in another room, and I have a lot of internet stuff to do first - forgive me if I join in later?
Well, I'm back, and armed with my Trusty Pierpont-Morgan Visconti! Don't you just love a deck with 600 years behind it?

Teheuti said:
One method in the "history of ideas" is to examine a myth in light of its expressing an inner need experienced by humanity at large or by a particular group at a particular historical period. (By "myth" I'm including made-up stories that get perpetuated as true. Joseph Campbell has called myth a "public dream.")

Here is the core myth told by Antoine Court de Gébelin:

1) Thoth/Hermes/Mercury (god of hieroglyphs, magic, medicine, etc.)
2) wanted to save from destruction
3) the Knowledge of the Golden Age (also known as Ageless Wisdom/Perennial Philosophy, etc.).
4) He coded it in sacred markings (hieroglyphs) that tell, through pictures that transcend individual languages,
5) the story of humanity's journey along the "Royal Road of Life."
6) These cards express a cosmology (a study of humanity's place in the Universe),
7) disguised as an innocent game.

Here we are looking for the “inner truth” concealed within an “outer lie” (which is another definition of myth). As Cerulean noted, it is because of this myth that almost all of us are involved in tarot.
(When I was younger, I used to talk about truth-in-lies like myths or fiction as "emotional truth").

Card 1: Hermes ... I pulled the Five Coins. Five is a number of change, of rocking back and forth, of instability. If you are in a bad position, instability is good - it promises positive change. If you are in a good position it is worrying, threatening unpleasant change, which is why, I suppose, so many modern Tarot writers have given the Fives a bad rap (thanks, Mr Waite!). In actual fact it is neither good nor bad, it just promises change. As does this godform: the messenger of the gods. All messages bring change with them, as they either inform you of changes that have happened, or cause you to make changes yourself based on their information. And Pentacles? Earth. Hermes in the structure of myth is the substance of the myth: if there is no change, there is no story to be told, no lesson to be learnt.

Card 2: ... wanted to save from destruction ... I pulled the Queen Staves. The Queen Staves is about internalising (queenship) drive, energy and ambition (staveness). So Hermes doesn't just have a passing whim to prevent destruction. In the case of this myth, it is deeply embedded in his very nature: It is not something he would be learning about if it were the Page, nor on show for the Knight, nor ruthless, for the King. No, it is just there, just natural and felt.

Card 3 ... the knowledge of the golden age ... I pulled the Star for this one. This body of knowledge is seen as a hope for the future glory of man. It has been reduced from the burning brilliance of the sunlight at noon to a mere point of light at midnight by the loss of the golden age of the ancients, but that piny pinprick offers a hope that the light of knowledge can be rekindled for the future.

Card 4 ... He coded it in hieroglyphs that transcend individual languages and tell ... I pulled the Pope for this part of the story. Fingers raised in blessing, the Pope, especially in the time this deck was designed, held the "hieroglyphs" of religion and acted as translator: few common people could read and fewer still could read Latin, the language of the Bible. Just as the ancient alphabets needed careful translation , the Pope represents the translation between the spiritual and the material, and carries the lessons in his mind, which he is entrusted to hand on.

Card 5 ... the story of humanity's journey along the road of life ... For this one, I pulled the Wheel of Fortune. You've got to remember this is an ancient deck, older than the oldest known Marseilles decks, and the Wheel reads quite differently than modern Wheels. It is not about change; it is about the journey through life. Centre of the wheel is the pure soul. On the left side, the youth rising from childhood to the powers of adulthood at the top of the wheel, then descending on the right side through middle age, to the bent figure of old age bearing the weight of life on his crippled back. This is the story of us all as we journey through life, watching and doing and learning, until like the elderly man, we eventually crumble.

Card 6: These cards express a cosmology ... Here I pulled the Chariot. Again, we need to remember this is not a modern deck. The chariot here is not about untrammelled force or impetus. Here the horses are disciplined, well-groomed, in lavishly coloured harnesses, and have golden angel-wings. Here, the Charioteer is a pregnant woman, clad all in cloth-of-gold, with a royal crown and aristocratic insignia all over her gown, holding an orb of material rulership. the pregnancy brings to mind creation. The orb in her hand and the many symbols of rulership being to mind the wide world. The horses, neat and disciplined, bring to mind mastery over the world, mastery over the wilderness, the superiority of the rule of mankind even over angelic beings. And yes, 600 years ago, European cosmology was based on worldly power: the world was the centre of everything, and the monarch was the centre of the world. At first I was a trifle disappointed when I saw that the card I pulled wasn't "the World" or something like that: now as I discuss it, it seems an impeccably perfect draw.

CArd 7 ... disguised as an innocent game. I pulled The Sun. A naked, chubby boy probably five years old, stands on a dark surface above ground-level in a posture that reminds me of nothing more than figure-skating, a form of play. Above his head he holds a shining gold mask - perhaps for a game of dress-ups or to appear in disguise or at the theatre? He has tiny little dark wings on his shoulders that are not consistent with his body in any way - is he already dressed up, and just about to put on the mask? A playful image indeed, redolent of games on different levels.

The cards that came up by chance seem rather apposite to this brief rendition of the myth that Teheuti offered us. I am delighted.
 

Cerulean

Quick Draw of Soul Journey with Hermes with Tale to Follow

Quick draw


1) Thoth/Hermes/Mercury (god of hieroglyphs, magic, medicine, etc.)
Eight of Swords - The Teeth of Sobek
The card design on the upper section show five swords upright, ready to be used. The fear these things symbolize seem to be a barrier. The lower three swords fom a gateway where the crocodile with upraised neck seem to lurk. Fear above of seeing the swords; fear below of going through the gateway. There is fear for the Seeker who does not want to grab the sword to remove the barrier, nor go through the open gateway for fear that lurks like a crocodile. The knowledge of Thoth that needs to be reached is out there, but fear is barring her way to find this knowledge.

2) wanted to save from destruction
Seven of Wands - The Vulture (Bird) of Nekhbet
Raise your eyes upward for hope, this design seems to be saying. The staffs of life form a beautiful design and the rising bird holds a ring and rolled scroll in it's feet; it is linked to the friendly goddess and it's beauty belies the title 'vulture'. The symbol of flight and nature is balanced by the tablet and ring, which means it's not just escaping, it is offering a passage way and message to the Seeker. The Seeker has help and divine inspiration from Thoth through knowledge that is coming on her journey.

3) the Knowledge of the Golden Age (also known as Ageless Wisdom/Perennial Philosophy, etc.).
Six of Swords - The Ship of the Dead
Passage is granted to the realm of the past, where Ancient Wisdom, visions of the Golden Age. And then the departure of Osiris from the living is symbolized by this ship, where Seth as the enemy is actually the boat that immortal Osiris rides. So in allegory, to the Seeker, she finds that the conflict is taking her into an understanding she needs to seek sanctuary and wisdom in another shore. She gains courage to find the knowledge from a more beautiful time and space to gather what she needs.

4) He coded it in sacred markings (hieroglyphs) that tell, through pictures that transcend individual languages,
10 of Chalices - The Chalices of Souls
The Seeker is not alone in her journey and she sees there are other hearts and urns of those who have passed before and there is a fellowship among her own life companions that she shares. She is not alone in her quest for wisdom and her fears are quieted: she will find fellowship along the way.

5) The story of humanity's journey along the "Royal Road of Life."
XVII the Stars- Magician's Star is Hope
Divine World - Immortality
Intellectual World - Inner Light
Physical World - Hope
"Whatever happens in our life, never destroy the flowers of Hope and you will gather the fruits of Faith"

Thoth's message for this Seeker is a tale and she sees and feels fellowship and learns what she needs.

6) These cards express a cosmology (a study of humanity's place in the Universe),
King of Wands - The Lord of Fertility

The Seeker's fellowship and learning allows her to become more understanding of her role and purpose in becoming the stronger planter and harvester of knowledge and resources. She consults with others constructively, moving past her fears, remembering her fellowship and common bonds with those who also seek knowledge and understanding. She shares with others, remembering to encourage hope, and rejoicing with others when the 'fruits of faith' multiplies...

7) disguised as an innocent game
XIV - Temperance -The Genius of the Two Urns - Initiative
Divine World - Movement of Life
Intellectual World - Moral Life
Physical World - Forces of Nature

Consult your strengths, not to retreat in front of obstacles, but use them slowly, drop by drop like water that erodes the hardest stone.

The Seeker has her own Book of Thoth that she consults for her inspiration, her fears, her walk through life..and not only does she share..., but in her walk, she uses her more temperate and strong nature to be forward moving, more harmonious with the natural forces of change and yet do so in a moral and compassionate way. It isn't all about her life among the gods; it is about what life she shares with her fellow workers, family, friends and the humans and natural world around her.

********************************************************8

I am not certain quite what I think of this tale, but I am glad to have used the Lo Scarabeo Egyptian Tarot...the book and deck set gave a read to me that feels...human.

Perhaps it is not the golden tablets of grandeur of courts and kings, more the small kernels of brown grain and sand beneath the humble sandals of humanity... but it a lovely tale to have come from imagined allegories.

Cerulean