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carcinya 
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Lightbulb 2 of Cups and Lovers


What does it mean when the 2 of Cups and the Lovers show up together?

I mean, you'd think one or the other would be enough, right?
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Thirteen 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carcinya
I mean, you'd think one or the other would be enough, right?
Not exactly. 2/Cups is instant attraction--but there's no guarantee that it will become anything more. You can jive with someone over coffee, but as you get to know them better find that you really aren't meant for each other.

Lovers says that you ARE meant for each other. That it isn't just attraction at first glance, it runs deeper. That you really are on the same wave-length. Lovers also implies a choice. So it may mean that you shouldn't take that first attraction for granted, but get to know this person better and see if they really are "the one."
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rwcarter 
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The first interpretation of the Lovers that comes to my mind is "choice" because my first deck (the Mythic) showed Paris choosing between Rhea, Athene and Aphrodite. I don't always interpret that card that way, but it's the first thing that crosses my mind.

So an alternate possible interpretation is needing to make a choice between a relationship (existing or potential) and something else. Like having a blind date set up and then being given an assignment at work late in the day that's due first thing in the morning and having to choose between the two. Or being attracted to someone else and having to choose between them and the person you're already with.

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carcinya 
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Thirteen:

So the 2 of Cups is the attraction, the unexplainable pull you feel towards someone else... the potential for love, that might or might not turn into a deep relationship? But then what's the difference with say, the Ace of Cups?

As for the Lovers, *how* do you know when it means love and when it means choice?

I mean, especially in the Druidcraft deck (and even in the RWS), it's very tempting to see the Lovers as a soul-mate sort of love and to disregard the choice aspect entirely... Say a querent asks about somebody's feelings for them, and you pull the Lovers: is that person in love, or conflicted?

Sorry, this card confuses me and I end up asking all kinds of questions.

Rodney: Yes, I see what you mean. When I use my Marseille deck and I pull l'Amoureux, I usually interpret it as "choice". But the RWS and Druidcraft versions show, well, *Lovers*: Adam and Eve blessed by an angel (I'm assuming ), and the God and Goddess happily making love in the grass... So if I pull those cards (and I never see them outside of relationship readings), I tend to see love.
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I had this combination come up for my daily, two years ago, just as someone who was pursuing me contacted me again... one of my sweet memories from getting to know him. He'd contacted me a week before, I hadn't responded (not out of a lack of interest, but out of shyness and feeling a little overwhelmed), and he didn't let it put him off - he found an excuse to make contact. There was definite interest there.

(My deck at the time, was the Victorian Romantic.)



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Last edited by hopena; 13-07-2010 at 14:43.
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rwcarter 
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As one who tries to interpret the imagery, I agree that the image should govern one's interpretation.

As for when the Lovers means love and when it means choice, if one isn't going solely by the imagery, then I'd have to say it depends on intuition, the question and the surrounding cards.

The Lovers as one's feelings for another? I'd probably say that person A has an idealized vision of person B and their relationship with them (and therefore their feelings about them). So I'd say that the person is neither in love nor conflicted. The 2 Cups would temper that interpretation, bringing in the element of newness or early attraction. (I just met this guy. He could be The One!)

According to the LWB for the RWS deck, the Lovers can mean attraction as well as love. And the 2 Cups could mean passion, friendship or union in addition to love. So the pair could indicate a passionate attraction to another person or a strong friendship.

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carcinya 
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So many possible interpretations -- that's why I both love tarot and yet feel I'll never be good at it.

In my (admittedly limited) reading experience, I've never seen the 2/Cups or the Lovers come up for friendship, even a strong and enduring one. But it's definitely possible: after all, friendship is a relationship based on love, too. (Guess maybe attraction might be lacking?)

What if the Lovers came up in a more negative position? Like, I don't know, what the querent is afraid of? I'd be more inclined to see it as "afraid of making a choice" in that case. What do you think?

I guess you're right when you say it all depends on context and intuition. But sometimes the situation itself is confusing, and that's why you're asking the cards for insight...

One last thing (and I hope we're not straying too far away from the initial topic here): The Ace, the Page, the Knight of Cups are "love cards" too, in their way -- would you say they are more one-sided than the 2/Cups and the Lovers? More immature?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carcinya
So the 2 of Cups is the attraction, the unexplainable pull you feel towards someone else... the potential for love, that might or might not turn into a deep relationship? But then what's the difference with say, the Ace of Cups?
Aces are the spark or beginning of that thing. They're like the first green tendril from a seed coming up from the ground. You don't know what it will become--a tree, a bush, a flower? Will it even live? But up it comes.

So Cups is a welling up of emotion, and that might be love or some other emotion, but there's no direction to it yet. 2/Cups is where it gets a direction. You see someone and AH! there's where you're going to aim your love. At that person.

Quote:
As for the Lovers, *how* do you know when it means love and when it means choice?
It always means both. Let's compare it to 2/Wands which is also a choice. In 2/Wands you decide which to pick because you haven't energy for both. So you pick the one which you feel will be a good investment for your energy. That you want to invest energy in.

But the Lovers is sometimes viewed as Gemini--the other self. This is the confusion in the word "choice" as it really isn't a matter of saying, "I could put my energy into Yoga or dance lessons, which do I pick?" This is "There is something about Yoga that I connect with, and even though everyone is urging me to take dance, I feel that Yoga is my calling." It's something you feel will complete you. "Choice" here is something you feel compelled to choose because if you don't pick it, you will feel incomplete. But that doesn't mean that it's going to be easy to pick it. This is still a choice because picking that thing may require sacrifices or compromises, and you "choose" to live with those.

And you still do have the choice not to pick it, not to go for those sacrifices and compromises, however wrong that choice may feel to you.
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Thirteen 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carcinya
What if the Lovers came up in a more negative position? Like, I don't know, what the querent is afraid of? I'd be more inclined to see it as "afraid of making a choice" in that case. What do you think?
Afraid of making the wrong choice is more to the point. Of losing your chance at being complete and happy.

Quote:
The Ace, the Page, the Knight of Cups are "love cards" too, in their way -- would you say they are more one-sided than the 2/Cups and the Lovers? More immature?
Cups are not just about love. They are about deep emotions. Friendship, sensitivity, sometimes depression or sadness, moodiness. Also delusions, drugs, alcohol and spirituality.

Ace, Page and Knight are not necessarily "love" cards. But if we were to see them as "Love" the Page is the immature love. It's sometimes seen as narcissism, or self-love, or puppy love, a first crush. The Knight is often seen as the Grail Knight, and that's a spiritual love. Very romantic, passionate, moody. However it can also be purely spiritual, a love of god. Questing for perfect love if you like. These are very different from 2/Cups and Lovers in that they don't specifically indicate an object of love. Just the "lover" in love with love.
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carcinya 
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Very insightful as always, Thirteen, thank you.

I see your point about the Lovers, I guess. Sometimes people have something wonderful right in front of them, and yet they still choose not to take it, for whatever reason (being too afraid, or not feeling worthy comes to mind).

Like if you met someone and really, deeply connected with them, but then made the choice to run away because it was just... too much?

So really, it's not so much about choosing between two things and not knowing which one you want. It's not a card of indecision, but a card of decision: whether to tread the path ahead or turn back, whether to reach for what you want or not...?
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