The Lovers and the two of Cups

Alta

I have been working my way through Seventy Eight Degrees of Wisdom, thanks to the numerous references to it on this board. I also read the lengthy post a while back about the shades of meaning in The Lovers.
Here is my question; I have had, over the past month, The Lovers come up in numerous readings, often with the two of Cups in the same reading. I am five years divorced, and at my age (52) not exactly a hot property. There are certainly no men around me (other than my co-workers, and they are all married).
The Lovers has come up mostly in the outcome card, sometimes in the Crown Card. The two of Cups generally as the Near future card, but since this has been going on for months now... roughly since the early start of summer... I think my original hopeful interpretation may be incorrect. I would apprecaite any thoughts.
 

Mojo

Marion

In my opinion, the Lovers isn't so much about love and relationships as it is about choices. And in those cases where it is about relationships, it talks more to the very traditional male/female roles of a relationship, which are a bit out of touch for the 21st Century. Many modern women don't want to be forced into the traditional "woman's" role in a relationship; they want their career and they want to be treated as an equal.

In the pre-Waite images, the Lovers card usually had one man caught in a quandry over two women. One woman is usually portrayed as the pure, sweet, innocent type, while the other may be a temptress or somehow a little more "dangerous." Some decks even show the other woman as a harlot or a streetwalker. The message here is that we have to choose between what we really want and what is supposedly "good" for us. As is true of so many of the cards, it talks about a duality inside each of us.

On the other hand, the 2 of Cups really is about coming together as equals into a relationship, be it love or business or any other kind of partnership.

Look at the 2 of Cups. Two people of equal stature are coming together to share what they have. Each one has a full cup, so they don't need what the other one has, but yet they still want to share their bounty with each other. This is a much more positive image when dealing with matters of the heart.

If those two cards come up together in readings for you, particularly if the focus of those readings is about finding a relationship, then I think there is a definite message there. I would read this as the cards trying to tell you that you can either settle for one kind of relationship (traditional roles) or you can hold out for something else (equal partnership).

With the 2 of Cups coming in the near future position and the Lovers in the Outcome position, I would probably take this to mean that you have an opportunity to create a relationship where you are equals, but for some reason (the rest of the cards may help explain this) you slip back into the more traditional roles. If this has happened repeatedly, the message may be that the traditional roles probably aren't right for you.

Based on what you've said, I also wouldn't be surprised to see the 4 of Cups coming up in some of these readings for you... sounds like opportunities may be out there, but you're not seeing them.
 

Dee 04

I agree with Mojo- The Lovers is more about choices. It can be about Romantic relationships but for themost part - for me it has to do more with choices. I think Mojo pretty much said it all...
 

MeeWah

Mojo has explained the energies of both cards extremely well.
There are occasions when both may have very mundane meanings, such as a love affair or a date, respectively.
With Marion's cards, they seem to indicate a knowledge of self, being comfortable in one's own skin besides possibly the desire for a meaningful relationship without giving up self identity.
Marion: do not think that because of your age you will automatically be excluded from the potential for a relationship! In this century, there is no such thing; however, it may depend on the life-style & how you approach this.
 

Alta

Thank you all for your helpful comments. They have given me a different perspective on those readings. I'll post if things develop along those lines. I really appreciate your thoughtful replies.
 

nexyjo

i had a recent run in with these two cards, which i interpretted as their "mundane" meaning, as meewah says, and threw myself totally off course.
you can see that thread here:

http://www.aeclectic.net/forum/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=5&TID=57&P=1&SID=6893

while i still see both cards as relating to love, i automatically assumed they refer to an intimate relationship. in life though, love manifests as platonic much more often than intimate. so i've begun to shift my view of these cards in that direction.

luv and light,
nexy
 

Alta

Hi Nexy... I did see your thread just after I had posted my query. :eek:
You got some fine responses and I was very interested to read them. I wouldn't actually call it syncronicity, but it was a very nice coincidence.
 

arizonagirl

I very recently had an interesting reading using the Celtic Cross with the 2 of Cups in the Final Outcome position, but it did not have the usual meaning at all.

Someone stole my Visa Debit Card number - not the card, just the number - and attempted to order $270 worth of shoes from JCPenney. The person who was taking the order knew me (of all things!) and knew that the mailing address wasn't mine. She called me and I called the bank and all was taken care of.

No harm, no foul to me but my husband wanted me to notify the police. We live in a town of 2000 and I very, very, very slightly know the person who attempted the fraud, and I didn't want to cause any hard feelings.

Using the Robin Wood Deck, I wanted to know what my best course of action should be. I won't go into the details about the other cards except to say that they pointed out very clearly that I shouldn't be a wimp.

When I saw the 2 of Cups in the final position, the first thing I noticed was the Winged Lion - it looked just like a police badge to me - and the woman in the card was handing something to the man. Strangest thing - never meant anything like that before - so I figured I was supposed to turn over the info to the cops. (Which I did, by the way.)

I remember reading in Robin Wood's book that when something just jumps out at you, regardless of the usual meaning, to go with it.
 

Talisman

First, arizonagirl referred to Robin Wood's book, and I think if you are one of those people who happen to like her deck, you're lucky because her book is witty and wise.

But, Marion, I want to do a reading of your two cards. Please bear with me, 'cause of a left brain-right brain something or other (I can never remember which is which) this is the ONLY way I can read the cards.

I know you said you were 107 years old, and all of your teeth had fallen out, and you are a cranky old crone, but --

So, the Lovers card and the Two of Cups come up.

A writer I really like is Daniel Pinkwater and his wife is named Jill and they both write children's books which I think are very good. Together, they wrote a book "Superpuppy" about how to chose a dog. A children's book, naturally. Let me quote one paragraph, and you forget it's about dogs, 'cause in this case it is your card reading.

"Let your imagination run a little. Our experience has been that the more developed one's expectations are, the easier it is to accomplish something which comes close to those expectations. Expectation seems to count . . . When people bring their dogs to our school, the dogs almost always work better for us than for their own people. It isn't because we are magic, and it isn't because we are doing anything we don't tell the people about. It's just that we fully expect the dog to listen, and do as he's told -- so he does. ...dogs almost always fill your expectations . . ."

Sorry, Marion, don't want to sound like a buncha power of positive thinking gloob, but your life is half over and you're prepared to shut it half down? I mean, is that half bright?

Sometimes, I think the cards mean exactly what they say. Sometimes I think the 10 of swords, for example, means exactly what it looks like what it means. Sometimes, subtle be damned, things just mean what they are.

Well, you've never had a reading like that -- and now you now why.

Talisman
 

nexyjo

while i agree with talisman in some respect:
Sometimes, I think the cards mean exactly what they say. Sometimes I think the 10 of swords, for example, means exactly what it looks like what it means. Sometimes, subtle be damned, things just mean what they are.
i think the trick is determining when they mean what they look like they mean, and when there is some kind of symbolic meaning, like the lovers meaning choices, and the two of cups meaning friendship.

i'll also agree that expectations can certainly influence a specific outcome. but i can expect to win the lottery all i want - yet so far, it just hasn't happened.

to me, the tarot is a path to our hopes and dreams, our fears and nightmares, our inner most secrets, and our outside facades. i've always said that we have free will, and we also have a destiny. our destiny is where we will end up - it is perhaps the closest thing to an absolute i've ever found. but it's our free will that lets us choose how we're going to get there. fortunately, life is the journey, not the destination. and the tarot can help make that journey all the more pleasant.

have you ever started to talk, with a clear path in mind, and then somewhere in the middle, you get so caught up in it, that you forget where you were going?

*flutterz off into the sunset in an aimless, zigzagging kinda pattern*