Reversals -- The Magician

1+2) on a basket of red roses, the wand of all knowledge is holding the whole picture.

Red roses are passion and security, they are holding strong. Roses are delicate and fragile, but don't attempt to break them, then you are bound to get stung on the deadly thornes it carries for protection. For me this means, that the coin always have to sides, and that you can't have one with out the other present.

The wand of all knowlegde is carring the magician through the reversed card, on that one wand he manages to keep balance in all enternity.

Untill now, symbols are very much the same whether you turn them one way or the other, it however changes slightly when you enter the "present" phase of the card. The belt is showing a snake - I believe it is the same snake you can see on wheel of fortune, looking at the WOF and a rev magician - the snake is turning the wrong way e.i. they would go "with the clock" and they go against. Meaning could be that this reversed magician is using wand and roses "the wrong way".

The middle of the card is showing the table with all the tools, elements, suits, whatever we choose to call them. Nothing is keeping them on the table, hence it is up side down, so if the magician wants to make use of them, he would have to pick them up, prevent them to fall to ground, meaning;

don't wait till tomorrow for what you can do today, don't doubt your abilities till they vanish, make use of what you got while they are there.

A danish saying, don't know if I translate right: Smith while the iron is still hot.

Future phrase holds are more wild growing passion (red roses), with learning and making use of the tools, your limits, imagination, fantasies, and goal settings become more dary, wild, unlimited. With the learning and knowlegde gained from that, the wisdom (white lilly) and ability to create concrete plans for reaching your goals will be yours.

4) if the magician turns up as a card needing more attention, this could be about not recognising ones own abilities and potentials, maybe talking down on others or not all together be legitimate on the edges. Not acknowledging the powers of the magician, in others or yourself could turn out to be a deadly tool indeed.

5) as a signpost the magician could again tell about not fully comprehent the potentials in the past card - as he would standing on his wand so to speak, for me it would have to be something to do with not following the heart, or seeing the passion lying in the past card.

6) The Magician usually is the Tarot Character in Tarot. He shows and teaches us how to use the tools we are provided in life.

However when he is reversed he could be very dangerous having around if related to a real person. Here he would be the bad guy, the impostor trying to lure you to something that either wont be very healthy for you or be legal.'

7) A Blockage - it is my experience that he can relate to a somewhat good childhood though with lack of support once the youngster has chosen a path in life and ready to move on their own.

Then The Magician to me indicates, that some one stands alone and there for have to figure out for them selves how the world is turning, because obviously their teacher has turned their back on them.

8) How does the magician turn his eyes on the cards, when reversed; I don't see his eyes being as importants as his hands actually. He is holding the wand in the air, to divination, and pointing with the other to the ground. When rev, the wand is solid grounded and his is pointing up in the air. As he is staring directly into the one looking at the card, to me he tells more to the reader than he does the querent. Even if he is loaded with potentials, it is still important also to ground passion while looking at the stars.



So in all - a reversed magician to me is as mind blowing as he is upright.

Comments on the Magician, Rx

Bec, first, some comments. I was surprised a little by your separation of the Magician and flowers from the table and tools in your interpretation. This is good. I had always looked at the whole card-picture without stopping to consider just the figure and his environment.
***
ASTROLOGICAL VIEWS: Like many, I consider the Magician to have Mercury characteristics. Mercury as a planet moves very fast and is hard to see from Earth. Because of the orbit, Mercury is close to the Sun. These characteristics fit in with the concept of him being a "messenger." Myths have developed that portray Mercury in many ways, as a manipulator (he who uses knowledge has power), as a thief (now you see, now you do not, so how can you trust him), as a trickster. Astrologers see him as a neutral energy, colored by what is perceived and how it is characterized and labeled. Mercury perceives, articulates. The Tarot-Magician has the power of knowledge, percieves, and uses his tools-of-the-trade to manifest thoughts and power. This materialistic end suggests, to me, a Virgo-like focus. Mercury is not the source of power, just the agent for transmitting, perceiving and articulating. Because of this, the Virgo-type often executes what others plan or direct.
Mercury retrogrades often, about three times a year. During these periods we are seemingly introduced to re-living and re-evaluating and re-doing some things.
***
MAGICIAN REVERSED: The Magician appears to now be taking the material of earthly existence and directing it heavenward. This is a "record keeping" process, placing accomplishments and actions up for view and evaluation. This is a sort of "show and tell" type of action, a basis for Karma. The flowers of our growth are offered up also. What you do is seen by all.
*** PAST: Things may not have gone well. There was recognition of shortcommings. You may have been deceitful.
*** PRESENT: Take care to be honest with yourself and others. Do not claim to be able to do things you have no skill for. Watch out for a "turning of the table" -- either by others to your detriment or as an opportunity for you that may backfire.
*** FUTURE: Learn how to opperate under adverse conditions, to be ethical in what you do. Or take care about how you both trust and work with others, or be careful about the agreements you enter into or reports that are given to you.
*** COMMENTS: Bec, these are my thoughts in addition to what you wrote. Your comments are very inclusive and helpful. My view of astrological relationships, Magician-Mercury, is that this is not "complete" in that one well-represents the other. It seems that the Tarot-Magician is rich with its own symbolism and that the Astrological-Mercury has its own symbolism which does not overlap with Tarot's meanings. I've suggested the Virgo expression as an added depth to how Mercury's energy seems to be focused. This may be as far as we can take these two systems of thought in terms of similarity in this area. Dave.

>This may be as far as we can take these two systems of thought in terms of similarity in this area. Dave.<

Even if the terms of similarity are limited, I believe you are sharing some great insight here Dave.

Maybe by looking at the astrology as an exstension of the tarot meanings instead of comparing, it could broaden both worlds?

I think what you write is great learning a great deal here

Reply

Bec, I have found this tread to be rewarding both for your insights and those of the others and for the thought that I have put into my explorations -- I've gained. Now, utilizing a web-site I've noted before -- http://tarot.wolfcoast.com/tarot.asp -- I've looked at a newspaper headline and the related tarot spread that is posted there. The topic is "Mystery van - Defense team says brown van could be missing link in Laci murder case." This is a media-frenzy story in the USA that relates to a husband-suspect and his long-missing pregnant wife. The wife's body and baby's body were found in a sea-coast bay a couple of weeks ago after the wife was reported missing at Christmas time.
***
In this Celtic Cross spread we have: 1) Hermit, 2) Page-Wands, 3) Three-Cups, 4) Magician Rx (just passing), 5) Queen-Wands Rx, 6) Temperance Rx (likely outcome), 7) Nine-Cups Rx, 8) Sun, 9) Ace-Wands, 10) Five-Pentacles. Remember, based on the headline quoted, this reading relates to the investigation and role of a brown van in providing a key link relative to the husbands complicity. The Magician Rx would suggest deceit by the suspect. I'll leave the interpretation for everyone else unless there is interest in discussing this as part of this card's thread. Dave. EDITED-ADDED: This thread is generating some great insights and views and is being watched by quite a few others. PLEASE JOIN IN OUR DISCUSSIONS ! ! ! I'm sure any views and comments, long or short, will be welcome.

OH this looks Great, I dont have the time for it right now, breakfast and kids needs theirs here first.

I will have to read the article and see what the cards looks like, need case to find Dave !!!

Let us do a "what does the magician say?" on this one *bouncing up and down here *

Sorry I'm late on this one I had to gather my thoughts together on this card.

I see the Magician rx in a slightly different way than either of you I think. Complimentary, but different. The Magician upright card I interpret as being about the self, the ego, and the will. Making things happen through the will and the direction of the ego towards the will. The RWS Magician is in the classical ceremonial magician posture, "As above, so below." He is directing his will to change the world around him, the classic definition of what magick is, and bring balance to his workings, hence the lilies of pure thought/wisdom and the roses of desire. There is also the snake around his waist, never ending and never beginning, achieving a perfect balance in a state of being. The lemniscate over his head is the same kind of symbol, balance and the appropriate direction of his ego. Compare the leminscate over his head to the one over the woman on the Strength card. Same sort of meaning I think. But that's for later

Thus, as I see it, the Magician rx is about the misapplication or misdirection of that will and ego, not to achieve balance as is the goal of a good ceremonial magician, but for wrongful gain. This is the classic tyrant: manipulation and self-aggrandizement for personal gain rather than the balance for the good of all. It is about oppression, manipulation, and sometimes, downright fraud and lying, to achieve personal goals and satisfy the personal ego. It can also be about losing that balance that the Magician has striven so hard to accomplish. Somehow, some part of your life, probably shown in surrounding and covering cards, has fallen out of balance because of ego.

Also, it just occurred to me that the Magician rx can also refer to the idea that there is a lack of ego or self-will on the part of the querent. Bad self-esteem, letting oneself be manipulated and used by others against your own will, because of that self-esteem problem.

Now either the client him/herself can be misdirecting their will, or they could be the victim of someone else's misdirected will. This card turns up frequently in readings for my husband, who works with one of the most passive-aggressive people I've ever heard of. This guy just loves tormenting the people around him, for his own pleasure and gain, and he knows how to do it very well. The classic Magician rx.

--Sobe

What does the Magician say?

BACKGROUND INFORMATION:
Given the deceit issue in the Celtic Cross spread (Magician Rx in the 4th-just-passing position) noted in a previous post, Bec has suggested that we dig a little deeper. I have posed the question, "Where would the Magician have us look for deceipt or bad evidence in the Laci Peterson murder investigation." Note that there is a thread on Aeclectic Tarot relative to this case where those following this discussion can obtain a time-line and a description of major events. Note also that the website link I provided also has news, astrology charts and tarot readings related to this case. The spread that I've used for this question is the Horoscope or house spread -- as an astrologer I find this provides a nice card-position-meaning format for me to explore tarot readings.
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The following 12 cards were drawn: 1) Lovers Rx (ascendant and nature of investigative team and the case itself), 2) Queen-Swords Rx (values the detectives bring to the case), 3) King-Swords Rx (how the investigation is conducted in terms of questions and strategies), 4) Queen-Pentacles (basic environment that shapes the investigative approach), 5) Six-Cups (resources and their application by the detectives), 6) Seven-Swords (work conduct in following up leads), 7) Six-Pentacles (Pro's and con's, evaluating evidence, projecting it onto the case), 8) Empress Rx (resources and interaction with other agencies that influence the case), 9) Four-Cups Rx (Public relations, news, solicitation of public input), 10) Devil Rx (Public status of the case, direction taken by the investigative team), 11) Two-Cups (Choices of inputs and their value), 12) Hanged Man Rx (behind the scenes conduct and expectations, working with the prosecuters and lawyers conducting the trial preparation). These are my adaptations of standard house-meanings to how I perceive an investigative team would apply them.
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THE MURDER CASE BACKGROUND:
Laci Perterson was a very outgoing and energetic young adult, known in her community through her substitute teaching position in the public schools. Her town is a very upscale California shore town. Scott Peterson is a handsome and well-liked person. They had been married about a year when Laci became pregnant. Laci was reported as missing by Scott last Christmas. He had been fishing many miles from their home town. Several months later Laci's body and her infant's body were found a few miles from where Scott had been fishing. It came out that Scott had been having an affair -- this turned the community and press against him. Recently, community anger towards Scott might have been mitigated by the report of a woman who had been abducted, raped and had Satanic rituals performed on her prior to her release. A brown van was used by her abductors who reportedly told her that she would soon be hearing in the press about a murder. This quickly brings us up to date.
***
MY READING:
** The LOVERS at the ASC house might be read two ways. The team of detectives started the investigation based on strong assumptions and continue to be influenced by them. Or/and the Peterson marriage, hyped by the press as being "ideal" based on Laci's bubbely personality, may have had undercurrents based on haste in marrying or Laci acting different within the marriage or on Scott having values that conflicted with Laci's values. This would "shape" the perceptions the detectives started with.
** QUEEN-SWORDS Rx in the 2nd suggests trickery for gain by the detectives (being devious, having expectations about what the evidence says before all the facts are gathered. Making statements about those assumptions, letting the husband be the focus, no matter how little or what there was to dirve that expectation.
** KING-SWORDS Rx in the 3rd points to the frustration of the team in being able to gather much evidence relative to the case. This seems to have resulted in pressures from many sources to do "more." There may be too much expectation from technology and hair-splitting. !!! see summary for a modification of these three reversed card's meanings relative to the 8th house Empress Rx !!!
** QUEEN-PENTACLES at the IC/4th may embody the community expectations and values, the confidence and manner in which the detectives operate. Perhaps there is a pragmatic view that the process itself will bring substantive results.
** SIX-CUPS in the 5th suggests to me that the team was or is trying to put a happy face on the case during its long periods when evidence was hard to come by.
** SEVEN-SWORDS in the 6th house position points to the way the detectives work. Weeding out leads, finding a motive and means, establishing links and a timeline, dealing with information that doesn't seem to fit.
** SIX-PENTACLES at the DSC house. Pro's and con's. How to shape the case, what emphasis to put on facts and non-facts for the prosecuting lawyers. How to deal with Scott and his story.
** EMPRESS Rx in the 8th house -- opposite the three reversed cards in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd houses. Resources or profiles are smothering the investigation. Other agencie's information may not fit with local approach. There may be growing splits within the local team over meaning or use of evidence.
** FOUR-CUPS Rx in the 9th house points call for public inputs to help clarify what is known or believed. This position trines or supports the Six of Cups in the 5th (which is in opposition to the Two of Cups in the 11th -- more on that later).
** DEVIL Rx at the MC/10th house. A nagging feeling that they have to start from scratch or develop a major alternative approach to the case. Something doesn't fit. Division on the team.
** TWO-CUPS Rx in the 11th, opposite Six of Cups in the 5th. Choics have to be made. Can a deal be made with others (not with Scott, the husband)? Does someone have information that can be shared?
** HANGED MAN Rx in the 12th house. A happy face on the foundations of the case. Expectations gloss over actual details.
***
SUMMARY:
The detectives seem to have found this case to be frustrating, to have little evidence to prove the husband's guilt other than appearances (affair with girlfriend, fishing site near place where bodies were found). The intrusion of external factors such as the brown van and multiple rape of a woman -- and her story that there would be a big murder in the headlines soon -- have to be followed up and dealt with in order for the prosecuters to prevent the defense lawyers from claiming that the police did not do their job well. Community expectations have been pumped up and may influence the team and pressure by local officials. There are four Major Arcana cards out of 12, all of them reversed. Fate is not making things easy for the detectives. There are seven reversed cards -- nothing is at it seems. Confusion often makes progress difficult.
***
COMMENTS:
Bec, this is my reading in response to your suggestion that we need to look at what the Magician finds deceitful. I am not experienced enough to know if there are more appropriate spreads for this purpose. I really hope that others offer comments on this reading. It will be interesting to see how the case develops over time. I'll be away from the computer for a few days -- I am taking a Boy Scout troop on a fishing trip to Cape Cod Friday night, Saturday and into Sunday. I look forward to your approach to this question. Dave.

Comments to your read Dave

First of all, I hope you and the "boys" have a great trip over the week-end


Reading your enterpretation, I stumpled over a few cards that could tell more than what meet the eye at first.

** SIX-CUPS in the 5th suggests to me that the team was or is trying to put a happy face on the case during its long periods when evidence was hard to come by.**

6cups is the traditional memory card - looking back in time and remembering facts or lost dreams. What I can figure out from the 5th house here, then this is telling of their resources.
It would be their resources of investegation right, 6cups would have nothing in store than heresays and old ladies tales, meaning facts and evidence are unlikely what this case is based on. You say it in a few other cards too, and what I see is that 6cups actually support the possibility that they have no clue on what to do, if what they hear of others memories are not true.

** SEVEN-SWORDS in the 6th house position points to the way the detectives work. Weeding out leads, finding a motive and means, establishing links and a timeline, dealing with information that doesn't seem to fit.**

Precisely, letting 5 and 7 be equal - who cares if it fits, as long as it looks good and is quickly solved. There might even be an important message here - detectives working with the quality of the thief card - are they "playcing evidence" to make it all fit??


** SIX-PENTACLES at the DSC house. Pro's and con's. How to shape the case, what emphasis to put on facts and non-facts for the prosecuting lawyers. How to deal with Scott and his story.**

Interestingly the pro/con postition shows 6pentacles - the Merchandiser, who is rich enough to share with who ever he CHOOSE to share with. Putting on a scale what will benefit HIM the most in the long run. Again a card suggesting that the investegation is a mere setup for public eyes only - wonder what really goes on?

Empress rev in 8th - agencies are not working together, maybe even holding facts and evidences from eachother, to make sure to take the "lead". Looks more like a competition between the offices than a case needs to be solved.

4cups in 9th: they are so glued to what they have already shown public, "changing written facts" now, is making them do nothing - how can they take and accept new leads and evidences, maybe showing something utterly different than what is already in the papers as hardcore facts.

** HANGED MAN Rx in the 12th house. A happy face on the foundations of the case. Expectations gloss over actual details.
***
A rev hanged man (which we will come to in all good time;-)) is getting sacrificed for a cause or another person. Usually he hangs for wisdom or insight - but rev: he is likely BEING hanged for another guys deeds. So not only are they putting o a happy face - it actually seriously looks like your reading here is saying:

They could be frying the wrong dude here cause they are a lazy bunch of fortune riders.

I have no further comments on this.
Let see what the news brings about laci and the brown van - still got the feel it ain't the husband.

Magician comments.

Yes, we have covered the Magician well. The idea of exploring what the Magician signified in one spread with another spread was, I felt, quite revealing and useful. That was a great suggestion. I liked how your familiarlarity with "key words" for the cards (6 of cups and 6 of pentacles) helped to quickly focus on some views. I have those kinds of shortcuts that I use with Astrology but haven't yet put in place with Tarot. My journal is starting to fill up and I'm slowly developing the level of "feel" for card and spread understanding that I expect for myself. I don't know if I will develop the same skills that a tarot reader would have since I won't have that number of readings to do, but that shouldn't stop me from some good work. I thought that I had grasped the essence of this spread but I liked the more direct punch of your comments. *** As an afterthought, we do have to keep in mind that the husband did go fishing on the day his wife disappeared, that is wife was found in that same area several months later, and that he did have a brief affair with another lady just prior to his wife's death. That probably doesn't change the fact that the detectives don't have a significant amount of solid evidence against him -- or that he may not have had anything to do with the murder. On to the next card. Thanks. Dave.