Aeclectic Tarot
Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Forum Archive

Predictive Methods

  > Aeclectic Tarot Forum > Beyond Tarot > Astrology


 
Minderwiz's Avatar
Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
Student of Astrology
 
Join Date: 20 Apr 2002
Location: Wigan, UK
Posts: 7,888
Minderwiz 
Student of Astrology

Minderwiz's Avatar
For Franniee


Whilst I'd like to keep this thread as a resource on predictive techniques and methods, you raise some interesting issues. So it might be a good idea to post a new thread with your questions relating to your own Solar Returns and I can cross reference it with this one. That will keep this thread general enough for everyone to get an overview and then raise specific questions relating to their own situation within the main discussion forum.

We will of course be looking at some of the techniques mentioned in more detail as this thread continues, so Solar Returns will no doubt be getting a detailed consideration in terms of approach and techniques.

Like Dave I have some concerns about your transiting Pluto conjunct natal Pluto - It depends how tight we define conjunction, but even allowing a wide orb of 8 degrees (far too wide for Pluto) and allowing for the fact that Pluto turned retrograde 4 months after your birth and retraced it's steps across your natal position, Pluto cleared the conjunction range by your fifth birthday, and will never return to it (unless you live to be 246)

From your description of the chart it matches the one I cast but if I turn on Pluto (Ugh!) SR Pluto is in your eighth trining your natal Sun.

So Again, please post in the main forum and we can look at specific issues relating to your SR chart(s) for this year.
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #11
Minderwiz's Avatar
Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
Student of Astrology
 
Join Date: 20 Apr 2002
Location: Wigan, UK
Posts: 7,888
Minderwiz 
Student of Astrology

Minderwiz's Avatar

Thanks for the input Dave.

For those following a Traditional approach, or simply exploring it, as part of the learning process, Dave's distinction between 'Directions' and 'Progressions' is a modern one. You will find little reference to 'Progressions' within the Tradition till the Seventeenth Century when Plaicidus di Titti developed two methods - the first he called 'Secondary Directions' and are the direct precursor of the Modern Secondary Progressions, based on advancing the horoscope for one day for each year of life. The second technique he called 'Secondary Progressions' and was based on a synodic month for a year. Placidus tried to claim Ptolemaic authority for his techniques but his reference to Ptolemy is at a point where Ptolemy was discussing Profections. Placidus' Secondary Progressions have largely fallen out of use but his Secondary Directions are still alive and kicking as modern Secondary Progressions (though Placidus did not intend all planets to be used, merely the Hylegical planets and points).

Directions were simply a movement of a promissor towards a significator (see Primary Directions later in the thread) giving the impression that the significator is moving forward in the 'direction' of the zodiac - i.e. forward through the zodiac in the direction of the signs.

Dave's reference to cycles is important - Astrology makes great use of cycles both in its Traditional and Modern guises. This isn't really the place to discuss these cycles in major detail (maybe the subject for another thread?) but remember that even in Mundane Astrology, a long term period of 10 years may be as far into the future as it's safe to go, (and many would question even that).
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #12
Minderwiz's Avatar
Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
Student of Astrology
 
Join Date: 20 Apr 2002
Location: Wigan, UK
Posts: 7,888
Minderwiz 
Student of Astrology

Minderwiz's Avatar

OK some more books:

Primary Directions, by Martin Gansten (2009) examines the method both in Traditional and Modern usage

Predictive Astrology, Bernadette Brady (1999) subtitled 'The Eagle and the Lark' covers Transits, Progressions and the Eclipse Cycle and makes some reference to Solar Returns - one of the classics

Planets in Transit, Rob Hand

Predictive Astrology, Christine Shaw (2001) mainly concerned with Progressions

The Art of Predictive Astrology, Carol Rushman (2002) covers Progressions, Transits and Eclipse Cycles

Astrology A Language of Life, Volume 1 Progressions, Robert Blasche (1998) the first in a series of books which covers various methods of Progressions.

Secondary Progressions, Nancy Anne Hastings (1984) One of the classic texts for students of Modern Astrology.

Planets in Transit, Rob Hand (1976) Still used as a standard text on transits, despite Hand having repudiated the approach and turned to Traditional techniques.

Most of the above books cover the modern Psychological approach to Astrology (or attempt to cover both modern and traditional approaches) The ones below cover Traditional Astrology only

Astrologia Gallica, Jean Baptiste Morin Volumes 22 (Directions) 23 (Revolutions) and 24 (Transits)

Christian Astrology Book 3, William Lilly covers how to set up, and interpret natal charts and then make predictions using (Primary) Directions, Profections, Solar Returns and Transits

Astrological Roots - The Hellenistic Legacy, Joseph Crane. A reasonable guide to the Hellenistic approach and covers Profections and Planetary Periods.


Please remember that Astrology has been undergoing significant changes in the last 20 years. Before 1990 (approx) Traditional approaches were largely ignored but there has since been a major rise in interest. Thus for some major Astrologers, what they wrote 30 years ago and what they write now has shifted. Rob Hand has abandoned the Modern approach whilst Liz Greene has shifted to a position somewhat in the middle, attempting to combine both Traditional and Modern techniques. Whist there's a lot of investigation into Traditional methods of forecasting much of it has only been published in article format and is yet to show up in textbooks. So please remember to search the web as well as the bookshop.
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #13
franniee's Avatar
franniee  franniee is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 24 Feb 2007
Location: new york, USA
Posts: 14,990
franniee 
Citizen

franniee's Avatar

BTW the pluto bothered me all night... something was wrong with that - I knew pluto was in capricorn and in my solar return chart it popped up in Virgo.... so there is no way that was correct... not sure why that happened.

ah I just did it again and it is in the right spot.... strange.... so never mind on him.

Again I was posting the solar return results thinking it was a predictive model.... and one step up from looking at transits.

I have the Hand books planets in transit and planets in composite. Thanks for the other recommendations.
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #14
franniee's Avatar
franniee  franniee is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 24 Feb 2007
Location: new york, USA
Posts: 14,990
franniee 
Citizen

franniee's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minderwiz
The Medium Term is perhaps six months to two years. Methods that could be used are:

Solar Return Charts. Each year the Sun returns to the degree and minute it was at when you were born - your solar birthday. A Chart for that moment will give information about the year ahead. Solar Return charts are derived from your natal chart and are subordinate to it. They must be read in conjunction with the natal chart and must not be seen as being more important than the natal chart. Key issues surround the way in which the chart is read - they should NOT be read in the same way as a natal chart. Traditionally it was the similarity or difference from the Natal chart that mattered, especially in relation to the signs on the four angles (and therefore the planets that ruled those angles)' as well as planets on or near those angles. An issue which Dave has become associated with, is whether or not to correct the charts for the precession of the equinoxes - the slight shift of the Sun against the stellar background at the time at which it appears to cross the equator at the vernal equinox in the North. This change is quite small, about 1 degree of movement over 72 years. The older we get the more the effect of precession occurs. For me if I want to go by the Sun's actual position against the stellar background at the time I was born and the time it reaches that exact same position this year I have to recognise that it needs to move nearly a whole degree further. Hence we now have two competing methods for calculating SRs and arguments as to which is best, or even about whether they are complementary.

This is what I was attempting to do....
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #15
Minderwiz's Avatar
Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
Student of Astrology
 
Join Date: 20 Apr 2002
Location: Wigan, UK
Posts: 7,888
Minderwiz 
Student of Astrology

Minderwiz's Avatar
For Franniee


OK, lets have a look at your SR chart and it's reading in a bit more detail. As this may take some time and Dave will also need to inject some of his own thoughts I'll relocate this section to a new thread. That gives us plenty of room to be as detailed as we want and for you to ask as many questions relating to the method are reading as you want.
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #16
Minderwiz's Avatar
Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
Student of Astrology
 
Join Date: 20 Apr 2002
Location: Wigan, UK
Posts: 7,888
Minderwiz 
Student of Astrology

Minderwiz's Avatar
Planetary Periods or Time Lords


One of the oldest forms of prediction is the idea of Planets governing specific periods of of life. This can range from the very simple to the very complex. A simple approach would be to take the Triplicity rulers at the time of your birth (that is for your Ascendant). Two or three rulers have been used in this scheme. If you were born during the day (after sunrise but before sunset) the Day Triplicity ruler would rule the first part of your life, the Night triplicity ruler would rule the second. This would be reversed if you were born at night. Some Greek schemes had a third, 'participating' ruler and if used, this would rule the final third of your life.

The big problem of course is that we don't know the length of our life at the outset (though there are Astrological techniques which claim to measure it accurately from the natal chart), so when the changes come is difficult to estimate. I was born at Night with a Leo Ascendant, so my first period would be governed by Jupiter the Nocturnal Fire Triplicity ruler, my second would be ruled by the Sun (the day ruler) and my final period would be ruled by Saturn (the participating ruler) The use of Saturn might appear very strange as few if any would classify Saturn as 'Firy' but Saturn is a diurnal planet and Fire signs are seen as naturally diurnal. Given that Sun and Jupiter have already been used and Mars, Venus and the Moon are nocturnal, the only other candidate would be Mercury. Mercury however is seen as a bit odd, taking his nature from the time of day and association with other planets. My guess is that I have now entered my Saturn period.

There are a number of systems that get round the problem of changes by giving the planets specific durations for their rule. Variations are found in Hellenistic, Vedic and Persian systems and their use in the West lasted well into the Medieval period. The origin of the various periods for each planet appears to rest in their cycles, either relative to the Sun or in the case of the Sun, its 19.0 year period is derived from the metonic cycle between eclipses in the same degree of a sign.

For a more detailed coverage see Rob Hand's website

http://www.robhand.com/periods.htm

and for the Persian periods:

http://www.robhand.com/firdar2.htm


Recently I have developed an interest in 'Zodiacal Releasing' or Aphesis, The starting point does not have to be the Ascendant, but can be (in principle) any of the Greek Lots. However, only two seem to be widely used.

Aphesis measured from the Lot (Part) of Fortune tells us something about ourselves - the 'What I am' giving periods relating to health, happiness, financial stability, etc. Aphesis from the Lot (Part) of Spirit tells us something about 'What I Do' - Career, hobbies, friendships and associations, etc.

Calculating the periods can be rather time consuming, as they don't necessarily break down into easy fractions. However there is a useful free program for people interested:

http://www.archive.org/details/tucow...diacal_Aphesis

The technique of Zodiacal Releasing works in signs rather than planets - starting with the sign in which the relevant Lot is placed. Each main period is divded down into twelve sub periods of equal length and these in turn can be divided down still further.

There is also a variant used by Vettius Valens, which uses the signs in order from the Lot but limits the length of each period to the number of years associated with it's ruler - so a Leo period will last 19 years taken from the Sun's metonic cycle.

I'll use Valens' system as it is the one programmed into Zodiacal Aphesis and therefore will match any downloads.
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #17
Minderwiz's Avatar
Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
Student of Astrology
 
Join Date: 20 Apr 2002
Location: Wigan, UK
Posts: 7,888
Minderwiz 
Student of Astrology

Minderwiz's Avatar
Zodiacal releasing


For this post I'm using the program Zodiacal Aphesis referred to in the previous post. There are two general options - releasing from the Lot of Fortune and releasing from the Lot of Spirit. Releasing from Fortune indicates what the world does to us - that which we cannot control or influence. Releasing from Spirit looks at what we do - that which we can control.

Franniee's Lot of Fortune lies in Aries. So the first period in her life is an Aries period. As we are using a Hellenistic system, whole signs are used and any aspects are whole sign. So even though Franniee's Lot of Fortune is at 20 degrees Aries, she gets the full Aries period of 15 years - the number of years attributed to Mars, its ruler. That will in turn be followed by a Taurus period of 8 Years (Venus has a period of 8 years) and so on.

It should be noted that the Greeks used a 360 day year, even though they were aware that this did not exactly fit the Solar return to Aries. So the years mentioned above do not correspond to modern years - hence my need for the software LOL

We can subdivide these periods - if we do the first sub period of each main period is of the same sign as the main period. Sub periods then continue in sign order. Let's look at Franniee's first few main periods:

First Main - Aries - birth till 24th June 1976
the Taurus - till 13 May 1984
Gemini - till 29 Jan 2004
Cancer - till 19 Sep 2028

Note that the Cancer period squares the sign of the Lot. So Cancer main and sub periods are going to be more stressful than Aries periods, Gemini periods and sub periods are less likely to be stressful as they sextile the Lot. From 29 Jan 2004 till 17 Feb 2006 was the Cancer sub period so this is probably the period of maximum stress during this period. Currently you are in a Sagittarius sub period - from December 2009 through till 23 March 2011. As Sagittarius is trine to the Lot, this should be a relatively good period.

We can explore some of these sub periods in more detail if you would like - remember that we can actually focus right down to particular dates.

We should also consider the triplicity rulers for the Sect ruler - The Moon rules night births, such as yours and your Moon is placed in Libra, and Air sign.

Your Triplicity rulers are therefore Mercury, Saturn and Jupiter in that order. Mercury is in Libra (which opposes the Lot) Saturn is in Capricorn, which squares the Lot and Jupiter is also in Capricorn. This suggests that you will indeed have health problems and that these are more likely either in the main periods ruled by Libra and Capricorn, neither of which you are likely to meet in your lifetime, or in sub periods of Libra and Capricorn and these will indeed be encountered. Recent such periods are early 1984, much of 1991 and the period between February 1994 and May 1996 - the latter being a Capricorn period.

On the other hand Leo periods are likely to be good as Venus is in Leo and therefore trines the Lot. These may well be the best periods if I understand the system

That's an overview - if you wish to check any date please let me know - especially relating to your back accident.

BTW Taking up the point made by Dave in the Solar Return thread we need to bear in mind context and also intensity. Few of us live our lives in the fast lane, with momentous events littering each year. A good period will not bring riches - unless your natal chart suggests it, a bad period will not bring disaster - we are talking in relative terms.

Edited to add

Curt Manwaring has argued that squares may simply represent 'busy' periods when more happens whereas signs that are cadent from the Lot may show relatively little happening. Given that being busy involves some form of stress, that may well be the case.
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #18
franniee's Avatar
franniee  franniee is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 24 Feb 2007
Location: new york, USA
Posts: 14,990
franniee 
Citizen

franniee's Avatar

Thank you Minderwiz.

Tell me if this is the info you are looking for.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minderwiz
Franniee's Lot of Fortune lies in Aries. So the first period in her life is an Aries period. As we are using a Hellenistic system, whole signs are used and any aspects are whole sign. So even though Franniee's Lot of Fortune is at 20 degrees Aries, she gets the full Aries period of 15 years - the number of years attributed to Mars, its ruler. That will in turn be followed by a Taurus period of 8 Years (Venus has a period of 8 years) and so on.

It should be noted that the Greeks used a 360 day year, even though they were aware that this did not exactly fit the Solar return to Aries. So the years mentioned above do not correspond to modern years - hence my need for the software LOL

We can subdivide these periods - if we do the first sub period of each main period is of the same sign as the main period. Sub periods then continue in sign order. Let's look at Franniee's first few main periods:

First Main - Aries - birth till 24th June 1976
the Taurus - till 13 May 1984
Gemini - till 29 Jan 2004
Cancer - till 19 Sep 2028
An interesting thing is I can see these as breaks in periods. The end of 1974 I changed schools and I definitely settled in by the time of the Taurus period. I was far more stable and settled and I excelled. I continued that way until I finished college.... which correspond to the Taurus dates....

The Gemini period I can see as distinct as well and I can see the transition into cancer.... I hope I am looking at it correctly. I am using what I know of the signs temperaments to see how they would color the period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minderwiz
Note that the Cancer period squares the sign of the Lot. So Cancer main and sub periods are going to be more stressful than Aries periods, Gemini periods and sub periods are less likely to be stressful as they sextile the Lot. From 29 Jan 2004 till 17 Feb 2006 was the Cancer sub period so this is probably the period of maximum stress during this period. Currently you are in a Sagittarius sub period - from December 2009 through till 23 March 2011. As Sagittarius is trine to the Lot, this should be a relatively good period.
YAY a Sag sub period.... from dec 09 - March '11 a good period!!! Dec 09 - Feb '10 was a rough time financially.... but then things picked up and steadily increased. All good!!! This past summer was catch up time! Please tell me that after March will be an even better period!!! My Jupiter wants to hear this!!!

As for what you wrote......I can completely see how Jan 2004 thru Feb '06 were stressful! EXTREMELY so!!!!!! My daughter was born in October of 03 and I was working full time and caring for her full time. She came with me to work. I lost my identity. I had to juggle a lot with little to no help.

At the same time my husband's first business was suffering because he had an evil, disgusting, bully, type partner. He was stealing from the business which was opened in '02. He felt entitled was a jealous ugly person and begrudged my husband any happiness. My husband began suspecting all of this around 2004..... he didn't sever ties with the animal until September of '05 when he closed that business and opened one on his own. This animal still threatens us. We hired a lawyer and he contacted him but he prefers to leave messages where he spits in the phone rather than have whatever he feels went wrong righted..... he has had to close 3 subsequent business and in the last one he was practically thrown in jail for his thefts.

On top of it my husband was commuting to LI as we were living in the city on the west side - so it would take him upwards of 2 hours.... depending on traffic sometimes it would take him over an hour just to cross town! He would take us to work at 7AM and I wouldn't see him until 10PM. It was TOUGH.

In '05 I went in search of a house on LI - I got one but even that proved to be insanely stressful. We had to move in with my parents for 4 months because my apt sold in 5 seconds flat and while their house is quite large it was HORRIBLE!

When we got into our home and moved in on 10/01/05 I was war worn and very BEAT up!!! I was tremendously depressed! This house was not what I dreamed of - we have since modified it as much as we can - it still doesn't fit but it is cozy enough. I was commuting into the city with my child at 6AM every morning. I was very lost and lonely. I didn't shake the depression until feb or march of '06. Does this fit in with what you were saying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minderwiz
We can explore some of these sub periods in more detail if you would like - remember that we can actually focus right down to particular dates.

We should also consider the triplicity rulers for the Sect ruler - The Moon rules night births, such as yours and your Moon is placed in Libra, and Air sign.

Your Triplicity rulers are therefore Mercury, Saturn and Jupiter in that order. Mercury is in Libra (which opposes the Lot) Saturn is in Capricorn, which squares the Lot and Jupiter is also in Capricorn. This suggests that you will indeed have health problems and that these are more likely either in the main periods ruled by Libra and Capricorn, neither of which you are likely to meet in your lifetime, or in sub periods of Libra and Capricorn and these will indeed be encountered. Recent such periods are early 1984, much of 1991 and the period between February 1994 and May 1996 - the latter being a Capricorn period.
I don't remember any health issues in 1984. Nothing stands out. The beginning of '91 was fine, it was the last quarter that took a terrible turn. That was when my brother got sick. He passed in June of '92. So '92 was HORRID! My father had a major heart op in October of 92 from all of the stress and I got bronchitis so badly that I ripped a muscle in my chest - excruciating! I had bronchitis for 4 months or so! I was quite sick! Then in March or April of '93 I tore my knee extreme skiing. My body wasn't in shape from the toll it took in '92 and I tore my knee up and had to have it operated on. That was the turning point for health for me.... the emotional stress of losing my brother took it's toll for many years.

I don't remember anything significant from feb'94 - may '96 health wise. The back accident was in October 9th of '97 - the operation was in November of '01. I also tore a ligament in my wrist during that accident and had to have that operated on.

This is a lot of info for a stickie..... but ok.
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #19
Minderwiz's Avatar
Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
Student of Astrology
 
Join Date: 20 Apr 2002
Location: Wigan, UK
Posts: 7,888
Minderwiz 
Student of Astrology

Minderwiz's Avatar

Thanks for the feedback Franniee. Seem to be some hits in there just using the main and first sub period.

You might be interested to know that for your accident of 9th October 1997 came in a level 3 Scorpio period (next level down) ruled by Mars, which ran from 22nd September till 30th October. Mars is associated with accidents and is Lord 12 in your Natal chart (using whole sign houses), and Scorpio is the sixth sign from your part of Fortune.

If we shift down a further period, to level 4, the accident occured in an Aquarius period ruled by Saturn (the skeleton) which ran from 4th October to 10th October. So now we have a six day period when you might have accidents (Mars) to a bone or bones.

You don't give a date for the surgery, can I guess at 9-11 November which was a Mars Level 4 period (Scorpio again) in a Level 3 Virgo period (Virgo squares your Part of Fortune) The Virgo Level 3 ran from 3 November till late December.

A Saturn Level 4 Aquarius period immediately preceded it in the first two days of November, which I suppose would add symmetry to the situation as the accident was in a Saturn Aquarius Level 4 period. There was another Saturn level 4 period from 20th to 26th November.

Now I don't use this method, so in a real sense I'm looking to see if it throws up ANY significant hits.

BTW was the injury to your lower back?

BTW2 your point on the sticky is noted - for the Firdaria I'll post the Firdaria reading as a separate thread, as I've given the links in this thread already.
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #20
 


 


Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Forum Archive
Aeclectic Tarot Forum Links
· Tarot
· Tarot Special Interest
· Beyond Tarot
· Forum Library

Aeclectic Tarot Categories
· Angel Decks
· Dark & Gothic Decks
· Goddess Decks
· Fairy Decks
· Doreen Virtue Decks
· Beginner Decks
· Cat Decks
· Pagan & Wiccan Decks
· Ancient Egyptian Decks
· Celtic Decks
· Lenormand Decks
· Rider-Waite Decks
· Marseilles Decks
· Thoth Decks
· Oracle Decks
· List All Decks
· Popular Tarot Decks
· Available Decks
· Tarot Books
· What's New

The Aeclectic Tarot Forum closed permanently on July 14th, 2017. The public threads remain online as a read-only archive and resource. More information on our decision can be found here. Thank you for being a part of our active community over the past seventeen years.

Copyright © 1996 - 2017 Aeclectic Tarot. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy. Contact us.