Female Knights and Page - Cary Yale deck

[Lady Iron Side]

I'm in love with this deck from day one, but unfortuneitly it has live in my Cedar truck for 8 yrs. I was going through my truck that is overflowing with tarot decks. (giving all my decks away) as I was going through them I had both the Cay Yale, and the Visonti peir mont. I decide to keep the Cary Yale for the reason it has both the female knight and pages. So the Visconti when in the box to be given away.

My hope is to learn how to read these cards. I'm so drawn to them. however there is no information anywhere on the female court cards, I've search the forum all last night and googled. Yes there were lots of reviews and history on the Cary yale deck about it have the female. but nothing as far as how to read these cards.

here is link that show 2 cards of female knight and a female page and a quick blurb about the deck

http://www.learntarot.com/cydesc.htm

So my question is:

What does the female knight mean ? wands, cups, swords, coins-
What does the female page mean? wands, cups, swords, coins.

or do you have technique of how I could interpret these cards.

Here you will find an awesome method by Thirteen for how to read the Cary Yale - Female Knights

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=152777

and here is another great suggestion

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=152571

Then here is the historical method, by Mel - pre - Golden Dawn - I will be trying to learn this method.

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=112327

[Lady Iron Side]

Ok I thought I would ask the deck what the Female Page of Swords means? and to my surprise. The magician appeared.

here are my pieces of that I found through out my book collection from various authors as to putting this Magician into a female page, I will use keywords that may be applied to her.

Mary K Greer book - Tarot Reversals
Youthful wit, charisma and the ability to fascinate, Insight, create new ideas, using your mind, skills, and dexterity to organize, ability to extract confidences, initiate communication with others, using persuasive tactics, can suggest the use of language and communication skills, being witty, cunning and clever.

Anna Marie Fergusen's books
Talent, Intelligent, a higher comprehending mind, independent thinker, impulsive, charm.

Mixed keyword from other books
originality, alert personality, assistant to scholar, empathetic, psychic discovery, she can channel her sexual energy in productive, creative, artistic, or spiritual activities, her sexual energy for a higher good.


RX emotional and intellectual dullness (RX) , Inability to concentrate (RX), sluggishness (RX),

Luis Royo's Magician - i love this line that he used to describe the magician, so i feel this fits the female page.

Is the master who can use his skills to create beauty. this make a nice reference to her for she can create using her skills into beautiful..... ideas or communication with other (relationships), etc, ..... in all her aspects.

What are your thoughts as the Magician - being the female page of swords or verse-visa?

With this Female page - Maid, having the qualities of the Magician. I'll add in some more female/feminine attribute from Luis Royo.
Air Sign astrologically related to Libra: Rulership: Capricorn/Aquarius/Pisces

Observant, alert and independent, The new mountains of life are scrutinized almost like a little girl what wants to play with the new world she has just discovered. Her frivolity attract us to her soft hips. Even in the Marseilles Tarot deck, the pageboy represented in the card has a seductive well-shaped waist. She observes with malicious eyes, she tells us how she will take over our dreams. Her rival gaze, beyond the stars and time itself, her sexuality awakens, adapting itself to space.

[Lady Iron Side]

Seems I'm on role with Luis Royo - beautiful poetic feminine attributes to the court Card I might as well finish these last two cards, I post them separate.

Water Sign astrologically related to Cancer.

An offering to others. Sensuality approaching affability. Shy and distant while being seductive and sensual. In the ancient Florentine Minchiate Tarot, the Jack of Clubs is represented as a maiden.

Moving seductively but the eyes half closed, she offers her vessel filled with anarchic vapors, a mixture of passion and apathy, infidelity, sensuality, shyness and aggressiveness. With a soft, friendly gesture she speak sweet words while her uncovered belly will provoke fire (in the Balbi deck, a butterfly on the cup speaks of the gentleness). The interior and the exterior are constantly covering each other up.

edit: This evening, I asked my Cary Yale deck, what is the Female Page of cups? my deck answered with:

The Two of Coins - I will post only keywords that I feel fit a female page of cups. again using my many books as reference as well as my own.

Has difficulty in launching new projects, An emotionally understanding person, psychic abilities, passive, dreamy, has an elfin charm which can be mischievous or irresponsible, Risk taker, cunning and can think on her feet, business partner, she worries, she wants her cake and eat it too, she gets embarrassed easily. she has a happy go luck attitude towards love and intimacy. she enjoy the pleasure of the moment without making firm commitments. she is content and sexually satisfied. she is practical and has no romantic delusions

Rx letter, message

[Lady Iron Side]

okay this will be the last quote by Luis Royo, for the knights he depicts them as males, therefore he only depicted the Pages as females with feminine attributes.

Earth sign related to Capricorn - Rulership: Aries, Taurus, Gemini

The young, bright messenger girl. With her head held high she will confront the new day with determination and a desire to learn. Her gaze takes on the past and new ideas. Her hair blowing in the wind will bring us the scent of sweet missive. She gets ready to face the world with confidence. In the Balbi deck she skillfully plays with a ribbon between the coins. Her breasts are bared to the wind, but sometimes her dreams get lost in the sheer immensity of the sky and her extravagant figure will roam around the field of scattered illusions. In the daily battle of life a new " Self" is found everyday and the old self dies.

Oh luis your so poetic. Hmmm after reading and typing this I had a light bulb go on, very interesting, It to seems he has depicted the Female Page of Wands here, so maybe in the Cary Yale deck the females were moved around into different suites than the male pages. This now has raised some curiosities with in me, will have to investigate this further.

Edit: Okay my intuitions is going off like a mad woman...lol so I'm going to express it here maybe with your knowledge of these older deck, you may be able to help me with your insight as to what my brain/intuition may be saying here.

I'm feeling that the Females are counterpart of the males - like positive and negative so I'm thinking that the artist drew these additional cards that ways and did move them from one suit to another that best suited the opposite yet the same.

Edit 2: I asked my Cary Yale deck what does the female page mean this morn, well I ended up with...wouldn't you know it...lol the Female Knight of Swords...ok this really throw me for a loop. Reason is that for 1 I have no idea what the female Knight of swords is yet ( that will be in the next section) so what I ended up doing was image her as the Female page of coins, replacing the sword with a coin, I looked at the horses movement, the colors (green) how she was sitting on the horse position. then came up with these key words.

Patient, strong, determined, harvest, abundance, grace, regal. assistant, satisfactory, eagerness to help others. practical and common sense.

I needed more info so I pull out a clarifying card. Three of Cups - then I had an extremely good laugh, due to it confirmed my intuition on the female knight of swords card...lol so here are some keywords that I felt would fit the Female Page of Coins -

Mary k greer -
Fruitfulness and plenty, when work has been successfully accomplisted or problems solved, solace, compromise,

I'm going to include some of the reversed meanings by Mary K Greer just cause it fits with my own...lol
Rx: excessive pleasure, overabundance, superfluity, loss of prestige, delays lack of appreciation.

well I hope My Female Page interpretation ( keywords) has helped you understand how to read the cards. please give some feed back on your thought, interpretation, etc.

[Lady Iron Side]

Due to this deck and figuring out where in the forum some of my studies with the Cary Yale deck are kind of placed in different areas. so here is the link to where the Female Page of Wands is.

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=152113

[Lady Iron Side]

These are my thoughts as to what the Female knight of Staves/Wands .

She is a Independent minded type of person who is cautious to a degree, self - sufficient and doesn't need to depend on others, She doesn't always follow through with plans or promises, She desires freedom - which can effect the relationship side - possibility of separation/loss, She is curious about other ways of life with the desire to roam, Everything she does is done in time, She find it difficult to relax even if she has earned it, She is content to spend time by herself and at times can be protective if her contentment and safety is threatened,She has a quite self - confidence and awareness of self worth, She is disciplined in the creative production or innovations, however with her living a creative life this can be a struggle to get things started, She reaches her goal - but it will take some time - her time, She lives modestly and takes pleasure in the simple things, She is peace and serenity with good esteem, She has it all, but she needs for balance.

[Lady Iron Side]

This morning I decide to Ask the Cary Yale deck what the Female Knight of Cups mean? reason is that I had a bit of trouble putting and imagining/ creating a personality for her. so here are the cards. While shuffling the had some cards turned side ways and half out of the deck, silly me I ingnored it, then pulled this card -

7 of Coins I will just post keywords that I think would fit her

Ingenuity, growth, hard-worker, Patience, and trust. She cultivates with care, she is slow /or slow progress, she is resourceful.

Then I was like hmm darn wish I hadn't ignored the card that was partially out of the deck. so i reshuffled asking to show me what that card or cards were that I had ignored. Cary Yale did the same thing half way through a shuffle but this time it just stopped letting the card mix. if you get what I mean. Here are the cards

Hope/Star - again keywords

Joyful, desire and fulfillment, love and expression, proper balance, grace, poise and charisma, giving without thought of return, creative imagination and inspiration, clairvoyance, her energies pour out into a good cause or to a long range vision.

7 of Cups - Imagination, daydreams, unrealistic attitudes, wishful thinking, indulgence in sexual pleasures, she imagines exciting possibilities and internally rehearsing the plans to achieve them.

8 of Cups - this is the bottom card of the deck - I pulled it out to read caause it was sticking out

Shyness, Modesty, might leave behind what formerly attracted, nurtured emotionally sustained, or fascinated her. Travel, desire, emotionally pulled, has a sense of longing, spiritual quest, love, romance, and artist fulfillment, warmhearted and intimate in her affections, Balance between the active ego and inactive aspects of her emotions, this balance guides the ego by her higher self.

What I found interesting is that I have here both WISH cards, I also took that as to my question, cause I had wished that I hadn't ignored the sorting jumping out card.

[Lady Iron Side]

The Female Knight of Coins

Here in a link to my post/thread - I posted this due to needing some help with interpreting the cards that I received, when I ask the Cary - Yale deck - What does the female knight of coins mean ?

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=152839

You will find the results there.

[Lady Iron Side]

Quick Summary of Elements - I have found that my Deck is teaching me what/how to read it. right down to what elements go where and with what, I think this is pretty kewl.

Putting elements to suits and per Card:

After figuring out the female Knights and Pages - I was then able to put elemental associations to the Male Knights and Pages

Male Pages = mains Element = Air =
by Mel's method = Elemental Air has a fast reaction time, and short duration. Air is playful, pleasure seeking, sociable, flighty, restless, scatterbrained, quite accurately described in the modern term, "air-head".
AIR = SANGUINE
In the airy character of the Sanguine, the fast reaction time is manifested also as impulsiveness, quickness at grasping ideas, enthusiasm and wit. The short duration means that the Sanguine won’t hold grudges however. It also gives the Sanguine the tendency to get bored easily, and be fickle and restless.


Male Knights - Main element = Fire =
by Mel's method = Elemental Fire has a fast reaction time, and long duration. Fire and the choleric temperament are the quick thinkers, while the melancholic is the careful, deep thinking philosopher of the group.
FIRE = CHOLERIC
In the fiery character of the Choleric, the fast reaction time is manifested as impulsiveness, decisiveness, quickness to anger, and mental quickness at grasping ideas. The long duration manifests as vindictiveness, ability to see those quick decision through, a sense of pride and honor, and a need to control. This makes Cholerics the aggressive, controlling people they are, and they are the people who rise up to be leaders.

Female Pages = Main Element = Water
Mel's method = Elemental Water has a slow reaction time, and a short duration

Female Page of Swords = Mercury ( Mercury enjoys " flowing Substances ) = Fire of Water = both - all
Female Page of Staves = Earth of Water = female - cold
Female Page of Cups = Air of Water = female - wet
Female Page of Coins = Water of Water = female - wet/cold

Mel's thoughts on Element = Water gives rise to the Phlegmatic temperament; calm, tolerant, organized, dull, monotonous, conservative, and frugal.
WATER = PHLEGMATIC
In the watery character of the Phlegmatic, the slow reaction time manifests as calmness, frugality, and indecisiveness. The short duration makes the Phlegmatic lazy, timid, hesitant and conservative.


You are probably wandering how did I come up with Mercury, well , Mercury is the planet for the Magician, so the Magician's Hat with its large and swooping brim, Hats and hair are symbols that indicate the processes revolving in the brain which = air, which is link to lunar , then = moon , - water. Hair = thoughts, feeling, and fantasies. I also notice that all other card were linked to water or the suit of cups.

Female Knights = Main Element = Earth
by Mel's Method = Elemental Earth has a slow reaction time, and a long duration.
EARTH = MELANCHOLIC
In the earthy character of the Melancholic, the slow reaction time manifests as cautiousness, indecision, irresolution and being withdrawn. The long duration makes the melancholic introspective, deep, penetrating, unforgiving, and a tendency to dwell in the past.


Female Knight of Swords = Fire of Earth = male - dry (Joan of Arch before she was pope - she disguised herself as a boy/squire/male
Female Knight of Staves = Earth of Earth = female - cold/dry ( Zena warrior Princess )
Female Knight of Cups = Air of Earth = both - all - cold,hot,dry,wet
Female Knight of Coins = Water of Earth = female - cold

Mel's thoughts on Elements = Earth is the sensitive emotional element, hence Earth being the cause of the melancholic temperament.


Additional Notes: this is just from observation of the Cards I recieved, and cross referencing them to Mel's method

All Female Knights Came Up for SEX as FEMALES, except 1 CARD which was the Female knight of Coins ( 5 0f Coins ) now how I see this which I am thinking out of the box, but find it a really interesting concept, and I LIKE it. that the 5 of coins came up as BOTH - for SEX = unisex - which is so perfect for this female knight why you ask well in a reading this card will give you these options for reading it, great for gay / lesbian / or Bi-sexual. I also found some other interesting valid connections as well. Look below and you will see them too. I found that My Cary Yale deck has hit everything on the nose, Completely Correct, anyways IMO.

how did I come up with the Element Earth for the Female Knights, well the card that came up were all linked to Coins, then the next think I noticed is that a couple of the cards had similarities with other cards which linked back to the Knight of Coins, I also noticed that all the cards were liking to Queens - which is a female and female personalities.. as you can see below Via Mel's Method:

What does the female knight of Cups mean? Answer from deck - 7 of Coins

Originally Posted by Melanchollic

7 OF COINS

Nickname - "Resourcefulness"
Element - Fire/Water
Temper - Choleric Phlegmatic
Power - all
Timing - random
Movement - random
Direction - North South axis
In the cycle of a year — none
In the cycle of a day — none
In the cycle of a life — none
Sex - both
Similar Cards - 2 Swords, 6 Swords, 8 Swords, Queen Swords, 1 Coins, King Coins


The Coins are Water, and the Heptad (7) is Fire. Again, all four contradictory Powers are present. The Heptad is the perfect number to harness these contradictions.

From The Theology of Arithmetic:
"It is called 'forager', because its structure has been collected and gathered together in a manner resembling unity, since it is altogether indissoluble, except into something which has the same denominator as itself, or because all things have brought their natural results to completion by its agency..."

The Heptad gathers together all the random energies generated thus far (1 ~6) and forges them into a new unity, a concentrated energy that enables the Decad to reach its natural completion.

With this in mind, we can see the 7 of Coins as the frugal pioneer housewife. She wastes nothing. The 7 of Coins takes all that has come before and finds a use. It is cost-effective, efficient, frugal, meager, methodical, practical, thrifty, and above all resourceful. It gathers together any and all scraps and puts them to a purpose.

Beyond the 'economical,' the card suggests doing the most with what we have, be it corn husks, pig intestines, or our talents and abilities.

As the Coins move away from the Ace, they gradually become less dignified, and more 'gray'. The 7 of Coins may show some aspects of manipulation, someone "using their resources," namely other people, to reach their ends.

What does the female knight of Coins mean? Answer from deck - 5 of Coins

Originally Posted by Melanchollic

5 OF COINS

Nickname - "Diplomacy"
Element - Air/Water
Temper - Sanguine Phlegmatic
Power - Wet
Timing - Short
Movement - Flexible
Direction - Northeast
In the cycle of a year - February/March
In the cycle of a day - Late Night
In the cycle of a life - Age 70~Death
Sex - Female
Similar Cards - 9 Coins, 3 Coins, Knight Coins, 8 Cups, 6 Cups, 2 of Cups, Queen Cups

What does the female knight of Staves/Wands mean? Answer from deck - 9 of coins

Originally Posted by Melanchollic

9 OF COINS

Nickname - "The Comfort Zone"
Element - Air/Water
Temper - Sanguine Phlegmatic
Power - Wet
Timing - Short
Movement - Flexible
Direction - Northeast
In the cycle of a year - February/March
In the cycle of a day - Late Night
In the cycle of a life - Age 70~Death
Sex - Female
Similar Cards - 5 Coins, 3 Coins, Knight Coins, 8 Cups, 6 Cups, 2 of Cups, Queen Cups


The common Power here is Moisture, which is fluid, conforming, yielding, and lacks self determination. Coupled with the 'falling short' of the Ennead, the 9 of Coins, following the 'Prosperity' of the 8 of Coins, suggests getting stuck in the comfort zone. The fluid 9 of Coins lacks hardness and discipline. It is excessive attachment to comfort and possessions, and fear of loss or failure. One has grown too comfortable and becomes reluctant to rock the boat and risk losing what one has achieved.

What does the female knight of Swords mean? Answer from deck - 8 of coins

Originally Posted by Melanchollic

8 OF COINS

Nickname - "Prosperity"
Element - Water
Temper - Phlegmatic
Power - Wet/Cold
Timing - Short/Slow
Movement - Flexible/Unifying
Direction - North
In the cycle of a year - January
In the cycle of a day - Midnight
In the cycle of a life - Age 56~70
Sex - Female
Similar Cards - 6 Coins, 2 Coins, Queen Coins


The watery 8 of Coins is flexible, unifying, and passive. It operates as a stable and passive result of the frugality and resourcefulness of the 7 of Coins. Here we see prosperity. The 8 of Coins is 'money in the bank,' a well stocked cellar, and a chance to sit back and take a respite, and enjoy what we have saved and worked for. The idea of momentum in the Octad suggests that things are to a point where they can take care of themselves — money earning interest, businesses or households with smooth running 'systems', relationships that have 'found their rhythm', etc.

[Lady Iron Side]

Hmm reading on to understand more of Mel's Element Association to Suits, Made me think that I needed to adjusts My Elements accordingly from the above current placing, So below following what Mel said makes a whole lot of sense so I will be re arranging the female knights and Male, Knights, along with the male pages and the female pages. Well I am not 100% sure whether, this is a best match, however I am still leaning my first associations. Your input is very valuable, so don't hesitate please make your comments

Originally Posted by Melanchollic

The Elements and suits make a particularly good marriage, since all four of the suit emblem's basic meanings fit snugly with an aspect of an Element. While I can't say that the suit emblems were intentionally designed to represent the four Elements, assigning them in a meaningful way is very simple.


So, which suit emblem best fit which Element?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Melanchollic


Swords = The instrument of war. Emblematic of man's aggressions and the right of rule.

Batons = The instrument of agriculture and husbandry. Emblematic of labour and productivity.

Coins = The medium of trade, security, material comforts.

Cups = The instrument of giving and receiving drink. Emblematic of sociability, pleasure, and the forming of bonds and alliances (holy union, marriage, etc.)




If we accept the above 'basic meanings' of the suits as being valid, then only one possible combination could work based on the meaning of each element and the meaning of each suit -


Swords - Fire

Cups - Air

Coins - Water

Batons - Earth



Add to this that the suit emblems would have been historically associated with those specific elements. Nicholas Le Rouge's very popular Shepherd's Calendar (Troyes, c1495.) illustrates some of these common period associations of the Four Elements and Tempers.

Male Pages - Element = Earth
by Mel's Method = Elemental Earth has a slow reaction time, and a long duration.
EARTH = MELANCHOLIC
In the earthy character of the Melancholic, the slow reaction time manifests as cautiousness, indecision, irresolution and being withdrawn. The long duration makes the melancholic introspective, deep, penetrating, unforgiving, and a tendency to dwell in the past.

Male Page of Swords = Fire/Earth = Dry
Male Page of Staves = EARTH/EARTH = Dry/Cold
Male Page of Cups = Air of Earth = ALL
Male Page of Coins = Water of Earth = Cold

Female Pages - Element = Air

Female Pages = Main Element = Air = Cups
Mel's method = Elemental Air has a fast reaction time, and short duration. Air is playful, pleasure seeking, sociable, flighty, restless, scatterbrained, quite accurately described in the modern term, "air-head".
AIR = SANGUINE
In the airy character of the Sanguine, the fast reaction time is manifested also as impulsiveness, quickness at grasping ideas, enthusiasm and wit. The short duration means that the Sanguine won’t hold grudges however. It also gives the Sanguine the tendency to get bored easily, and be fickle and restless.

Female Page of Swords = Fire of Air = Hot
Female Page of Staves = Earth of Air = ALL
Female Page of Cups = AIR/AIR = Hot/Wet
Female Page of Coins = Water of Air = Wet

Male Knights - Element = Fire

Male Knights = Main Element = Fire
By Mel's Method = Elemental Fire has a fast reaction time, and long duration. Fire and the choleric temperament are the quick thinkers, while the melancholic is the careful, deep thinking philosopher of the group.
FIRE = CHOLERIC
In the fiery character of the Choleric, the fast reaction time is manifested as impulsiveness, decisiveness, quickness to anger, and mental quickness at grasping ideas. The long duration manifests as vindictiveness, ability to see those quick decision through, a sense of pride and honor, and a need to control. This makes Cholerics the aggressive, controlling people they are, and they are the people who rise up to be leaders.

Male Knight of Swords = FIRE/FIRE = Hot/Dry
Male Knight of Staves = Earth of Fire = Dry
Male Knight of Cups = Air of Fire = Hot
Male Knight of Coins = Water of Fire = ALL

Female Knights - Elements = Water

Female Knights = Main Element = Water = Coins
by Mel's Method = Elemental Water has a slow reaction time, and a short duration
WATER = PHLEGMATIC
In the watery character of the Phlegmatic, the slow reaction time manifests as calmness, frugality, and indecisiveness. The short duration makes the Phlegmatic lazy, timid, hesitant and conservative.

Female Knight of Swords = Fire of water = ALL
Female Knight of Staves = Earth of Water = Cold
Female Knight of Cups = Air of Water = Wet
Female Knight of Coins = WATER/WATER = Cold/Wet

Mel's thoughts on Elements = Water gives rise to the Phlegmatic temperament; calm, tolerant, organized, dull, monotonous, conservative, and frugal.