Hopefully, not a rehash of non-RWS, non-Thoth, non-TdM decks

I've looked through the AT history and so far I haven't found a thread that exactly addresses what I am curious about. I know my question will probably overlap with "What is tarot?" and "what is tarot's history?" I found an 8-year old thread that discusses the concept I'm thinking of, but not necessarily the execution: http://www.tarotforum.net/library/16/2003-12/would-this-be-a-tarot-deck-20031225.shtml

So, with all that lead-up, what tarot decks most depart from RWS, Thoth and TdM, to you, but silll feel like tarot decks? What decks are most stand-alone but still retain some of that je ne sais quoi that makes tarot, tarot?

If there is already a thread that lists these decks, I could always just go read it there. My keywords could always have led me astray.

I think I approach this question from a different direction. And I don't want to lead your thread astray. But...

The way I see it, all decks have grown out of the tarot tradition. The TdM grew out of earlier decks. The RWS and Thoth grew out of the occult permutations that were rooted in the TdM -- along with other decks that failed to find the same popularity (but are nevertheless part of the ever-branching tree that comes from the First Deck, whatever it was).

In this sense, all are tarot, no matter how far they depart from the trinity of TdM, RWS, and Thoth.

On the other hand, there are many decks that are in fact very close to the traditional imagery, but in fact do not have "that je ne sais quoi that makes tarot, tarot." Decks that may have the usual trumps -- Lovers, Judgment, the Moon -- but when you look at them, there is nothing there. They mimic tarot in form but not in substance. They are lifeless -- dead.

I will not name decks or describe cards because I don't want to be the cause of defensiveness. But I am sure everyone can think of examples.

Certainly such decks can be read with. As has been said many times, one can read with beer mats, or those sublimely ridiculous Power Animals (oops, I named one). And they may have appeal to collectors and there is nothing wrong with that. But in my snobby heart I can't refer to them as tarot except in the most superficial way.

No, no, I like this angle! I wanted to hear thinking thoughtfulness. I guess I don't know yet whether a deck is ... actually flat to most people, 2-dimensional and no heart, soul, 3rd or 4th dimensions, or just doesn't connect with person X or person Y. I think that's one of the satisfying benefits of AT: if you poll a buncha people, say, for instance, in a conversational thread about a deck, you will find out how much it suffers from hollow paper-ness or how much it's just you.

Still ... anyone care to name decks that they do like / find fortitude, discernment, revelation, clarity using, but that have few evident ties to the Big Three?

Gosh, I take a different approach. When I read the O.P my immediate thought was of those decks which do not bear any resemblance to systems which we know and how this can be a good thing and how I find reading with such decks quite liberating.

If it is this that you're asking about, I did start a thread once about decks which bear no resemblance to anything we know.

It is hard for a deck to be truly non-TdM, non-RWS and non-Thoth (and I wouldn't automatically call it an oracle if it were) and the 3 of Swords and the 6 of Swords usually give the game away..

However, The LoS Tarot the Imagination is one deck which to me feels totally removed from the traditional systems.

I have no qualms with artists creating a totally new system, but then I don't think of the RWS as traditional anyway, I think of it as quite recent.

Or maybe it wasn't this you were asking about at all!

The tarot I have that most departs from RWS, thoth etc. is Jolanda (Swedish Witch) Tarot. It has fully illustrated minors and they are nothing like the normal RWS scenes at all. Well, I mean the meanings are often pretty similar to RWS meanings but the scenes chosen are very different, and there's lots of animals.

E.g.: The RWS has, for 5 wands, some boys play fighting with sticks, the Jolanda has 5 animal-headed wands bursting out of a volcano with a sphinx and an ostrich (!) in the foreground and a ringed planet in the background. (Ringed planet and Sphinx probably to represent the traditional astrology of Saturn in Leo).

The RWS for 3 of swords has 3 swords piercing a heart, Jolanda has a spider with a human head for a body, which is crying tears which break the web and fall towards three different coloured swords at the bottom of the card.

Yes, yes, yes! That's exactly what I was after, Le Fanu and graspee. Especially those Serghi Udovichenko and Fractal Firebird ones. Whoa....

Yes, freedom from conventional systems, architectures and frameworks - liberation - so that, as gregory would say, we can most easily use the glorpish system.

Even if nisaba would say "all decks are glorpish," I want/ed a list of the most easily glorped decks.

I love that old thread - have to peruse it more when it is not so late - and am looking for more of the same. Yay! Many thanks.

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/universal/index.shtml#cards

Universal by Maxwell.

I like this deck a lot but can't really put my finger of the reason why. I'm a Marseilles reader mostly and this is definitely not in that system. It has 74 cards, no Knights included, which Maxwell did to fit his own system. A personal system is something I usually stay away from but this deck intrigues me and has given me some really good readings. There is also lots of symbolism and cultures to explore which means its a deck with a lot of mileage, something else I like. And was printed by Findhorn Press at Findhorn which I also like the idea of.

I only know of one other person who reads with it and that's Rosanne.

I have a couple of decks in my collection that veer off traditional imagery enough that I don't read with them but I'm planning to study them and 'make them my own' one of these days:

Runic Tarot : It seems more like an oracle to me...
Tarot of the Origins : Wheel of Fortune is Time, the Tower is Menhir and nothing is being destroyed/falling down, I can't connect anything to RWS at all. But I LOVE this deck. Even if the images frighten me a little (lots of raw animal meat, a suit called 'Blood', a gored person...) Now I have to admit I haven't had the courage to read with this deck yet but it's on the back burner

The LoS Medieval Tarot is strange as well. My copy is oversized, about double the usual and the imagery could be downright hilarious at times. I think the 3 Wands shows a a guy being presented with 3 pregnant women, almost as if he were being accused of impregnating them, LOL. And then there's a Knight suspended uselessly above his saddle (what to make of that?). I guess it could make for cheeky and interesting love readings

That said, I wish LoS published more decks with books! Makes it easier to take the plunge

Evie said:

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/universal/index.shtml#cards

Universal by Maxwell.

I like this deck a lot but can't really put my finger of the reason why. I'm a Marseilles reader mostly and this is definitely not in that system. It has 74 cards, no Knights included, which Maxwell did to fit his own system. A personal system is something I usually stay away from but this deck intrigues me and has given me some really good readings. There is also lots of symbolism and cultures to explore which means its a deck with a lot of mileage, something else I like. And was printed by Findhorn Press at Findhorn which I also like the idea of.

I only know of one other person who reads with it and that's Rosanne.

Click to expand...

This looks to have non-scenic pips. Is that right?

marimorimo said:

I have a couple of decks in my collection that veer off traditional imagery enough that I don't read with them but I'm planning to study them and 'make them my own' one of these days:

Runic Tarot : It seems more like an oracle to me...
Tarot of the Origins : Wheel of Fortune is Time, the Tower is Menhir and nothing is being destroyed/falling down, I can't connect anything to RWS at all. But I LOVE this deck. Even if the images frighten me a little (lots of raw animal meat, a suit called 'Blood', a gored person...) Now I have to admit I haven't had the courage to read with this deck yet but it's on the back burner

The LoS Medieval Tarot is strange as well. My copy is oversized, about double the usual and the imagery could be downright hilarious at times. I think the 3 Wands shows a a guy being presented with 3 pregnant women, almost as if he were being accused of impregnating them, LOL. And then there's a Knight suspended uselessly above his saddle (what to make of that?). I guess it could make for cheeky and interesting love readings

That said, I wish LoS published more decks with books! Makes it easier to take the plunge

Click to expand...

Whether tarot or oracle, I like the runes one a lot. The art seems a blend of historic, celtic and art nouveau - combined very well. On-screen the cards do feel like they have something to say. I know others on AT have said they can't figure this runic deck out or have not been able to use it well, but I don't know how much people have tried. Onto the wish list it goes!

I would want to see the suits, from their seasons, to see how much of a framework or structure they have. I guess that's part of what makes something seem tarot or oracle to me - is there some sort of system, whether clearly married to or divorced from historical tarot, that the cards were built in? I think tarot has something to do with geometry and architecture for me.

I am a wimp. Tarot of the Origins just horrifies me! But then, I am wimp so far about even dark decks. If the images frighten you just a little, you're doing far better than I think I would.

The Medieval one looks pretty RWS-ey to me, albeit with twists. Is it really its own separate creation?