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deviant moon--IX The Hermit

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the fish


reading about the fish , reminded me of the same fishes on the fool card , remember? the one who bit the fool , perhps it is the retaliation? the fish was in the fool acting like the more trdfitional dog who tried to prevent the fool. as in a reminder of how one cant be alone the card itself reminds me of that " he wants you to leave , to stop looking at him let him think , etc. " maybe its just food , even if we want issolation , we need people to survive
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In regard to the shadow side of thiS card, I wondered if this guy is afraid of his feelings and the world outside is the reflection of what's going on in his mind right now?

Also the prominent eye - It too could relate to the state his human psyche is in at the moment?
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I love this card. Yes, it does scream "tortured soul", but having those barren moments in my life, myself, I can completely relate and understand this... The crazed expression on it's face doesn't have to be a literal case of insanity. To me, it relates to the constant flooding of thoughts and obsessions that need to be properly evaluated and dealt with. We've all had those moments where we just want to scream out of frustration and confusion. This Hermit is doing exactly that. It's letting out the negative emotions associated with frustration and confusion to leave more room for the rational thought process. It's compacted bodily positioning brings to mind wanting to be restored to a more peaceful and balanced energy state. The position the Hermit is in reminds me of a child in it's mother's womb or 'the fetal position'. This Hermit is protecting itself from all of the negativity that has encompassed it.
Valenza lets us know this Hermit is hiding out and seeking solitude. Unlike most Hermit cards, the character is not displayed above the world, looking down onto society. DM's Hermit is level with society, on par with the rest of the population. I like this aspect a lot, as the Hermit can sometimes give me a hoity-toity vibe of being "above it all". This Hermit displays to me that you can be a part of society while still seeking that which is above and beyond.
If you look to the background, there are windows open in the building... to me this represents new knowledge; the wisdom gained from mulling things over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elendil View Post
A silent scream...as if the knowledge is too much.

BTW: I have never really understood exactly why the rotting fish 'is a reminder that we can never hide from ourselves' (LWB). Thoughts anyone?
As for the fish... I have come to associate a single pictoral representation of a fish to be reminiscent of the 'Jesus Fish'. To my understanding, to Christians the fish represents spirituality. I think of the expressions that we are all fish in the same sea. I am then reminded of Global Unity. The we are all one mentality. You can swim with the current or try to go against it.
As for Valenza's statement that 'you cannot hide from yourself', I take this to mean that you cannot hide from who or what you truely are. You cannot hide from yourself, unlike the Hermit and our ability to hide from others. You are never truely alone if you have your fish/your spirituality. Most spiritual paths endorce the idea that there is something connecting you to others and your divinity. Depending on your path, there may be beings looking out for you, looking down on you, trying to communicate and guide you, or there is a higher part of yourself that has access to others and the devine. I believe that this fish represents your true self and your spirituality; connecting you, feeding you, nurturing you, and sometimes challenging you. As the saying goes, "you cannot run from your problems", this Hermit is a picture of the complicated way in which we all must accept our problems, find the best way to deal with them, and learn from our mistakes (or those of others).
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wolf354  wolf354 is offline
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We are close in our opinion
I think that what bothers the Hermit is what he left behind him, if you notice is left eye it is very peaceful, like in a meditation state. He is a divided person between the peace that doesn't work with other persons around and the misunderstanding with each he is treated.

EDIT: I've just noticed that he is similar to a fish out of water, a lonely person but sometimes he can't resit to look into the normal world wich brings him pain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeviee View Post
I love this card. Yes, it does scream "tortured soul", but having those barren moments in my life, myself, I can completely relate and understand this... The crazed expression on it's face doesn't have to be a literal case of insanity. To me, it relates to the constant flooding of thoughts and obsessions that need to be properly evaluated and dealt with. We've all had those moments where we just want to scream out of frustration and confusion. This Hermit is doing exactly that. It's letting out the negative emotions associated with frustration and confusion to leave more room for the rational thought process. It's compacted bodily positioning brings to mind wanting to be restored to a more peaceful and balanced energy state. The position the Hermit is in reminds me of a child in it's mother's womb or 'the fetal position'. This Hermit is protecting itself from all of the negativity that has encompassed it.
Valenza lets us know this Hermit is hiding out and seeking solitude. Unlike most Hermit cards, the character is not displayed above the world, looking down onto society. DM's Hermit is level with society, on par with the rest of the population. I like this aspect a lot, as the Hermit can sometimes give me a hoity-toity vibe of being "above it all". This Hermit displays to me that you can be a part of society while still seeking that which is above and beyond.
If you look to the background, there are windows open in the building... to me this represents new knowledge; the wisdom gained from mulling things over.


As for the fish... I have come to associate a single pictoral representation of a fish to be reminiscent of the 'Jesus Fish'. To my understanding, to Christians the fish represents spirituality. I think of the expressions that we are all fish in the same sea. I am then reminded of Global Unity. The we are all one mentality. You can swim with the current or try to go against it.
As for Valenza's statement that 'you cannot hide from yourself', I take this to mean that you cannot hide from who or what you truely are. You cannot hide from yourself, unlike the Hermit and our ability to hide from others. You are never truely alone if you have your fish/your spirituality. Most spiritual paths endorce the idea that there is something connecting you to others and your divinity. Depending on your path, there may be beings looking out for you, looking down on you, trying to communicate and guide you, or there is a higher part of yourself that has access to others and the devine. I believe that this fish represents your true self and your spirituality; connecting you, feeding you, nurturing you, and sometimes challenging you. As the saying goes, "you cannot run from your problems", this Hermit is a picture of the complicated way in which we all must accept our problems, find the best way to deal with them, and learn from our mistakes (or those of others).
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This card has frustrated me for a long time, as I feel the rest of the deck is pretty clearly RWS-based, but this card never seemed to me to fit especially well (or...at all!) with my own ideas about the RWS Hermit. I recently had a "Eureka moment," though, about how to interpret this card in such a way as to still fit in with RWS Hermit notions. I thought I'd share it here. I just wrote about it at some length in my ongoing blog this morning, but as I'm not sure if we're allowed to put up links to our blogs in non-advertising threads, I'm just copying the most relevant portion in here:

"It struck me that this Hermit represents a very specific moment in the quest for spiritual discovery and growth: it's that moment when the spiritual seeker has gotten herself/himself into a position such that it's necessary to weather a sudden, unstoppable incoming flood of knowledge/sensation/input, and there's nowhere to hide from it, no way to elude or evade it. You, the seeker, have asked for it, and now you're getting it, even if that means being steamrollered by it. Contemplate the person who gets so deep into trance that, for the first time, they're not sure they'll be able to find their way out of it. Consider the seeker who leaps into the existential Abyss, and gets so far out into actual ego-death, that the sense of "I" that we generally carry with us completely disappears. Ponder the psychonaut adventurer who plunges out into the cosmic seas of something like DMT or Ayahuasca for the first time, and realizes for one screaming microsecond as the substance comes on, that this will be far, far more than was ever bargained for, and that there's no hope for control here -- all that's left is surrender... And of course, it's often through such staggering, transformative experiences that we derive the most Truth and Enlightenment...but they're certainly not the easiest experiences in the world to endure! And so I believe that that's what this particular Hermit represents: that aspect, that specific moment, in the quest for spiritual Knowledge. The moment in which one is transported, shrieking, toward some new and vastly greater Understanding. And that doesn't fly in the face of the traditional Hermit's meaning at all -- it actually fits with it exceedingly well. And now that I've seen it as such, I doubt I'll ever be able to un-see it."
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I have'nt been reading long but love this deck and have done a lunatic spread for myself which told me some interesting things I reckognised immediatley. My Mentor looked over the cards and expanded and clarified my thoughts and told me things I do that I've done since childhood to protect myself.

The Hermit is an interesting card. All of you have made very valid points indeed and perhaps my interpretations have been mentioned by many of you already.

I think I initially would have been happier if He was sitting there contemplating a candle or perhaps a broken lantern. I agree with the idea that the traditional Hermit is an "old hand" showing us the way to contemplation, where this poor guy is overwhelmed and is finding his own way ( as we all must ). No matter how much/far he withdraws, he must "open His eyes to truth or understanding", of His own spirit or the worlds, whichever causes the withdrawal.

I like the open windows idea.
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I like very much what you have all said here... especially resonate with the empath quality of this card and the needing to stay away from society to get rid of the pain that an empath can experience to an overwhelming degree... I totally get the emotion in this card and the wanting to bury oneself in a cave. I think it is unlike the traditional hermit in the RWS and I like this because it brings out other aspects.

The Deviant Moon is a unique deck and I choose to read it intuitively and as one on it;s own rather than very RWS based... there are connections but it has its own flavour.

The rotting fish, well... it's pretty hard to get away from the smell unless you actively do something about it, so I think its a great way of showing the fact that it is hard to get away from yourself... and facing maybe the parts that are not good right now... hence the need for a spiritual retreat...

Mumblings but I hope they make some sense
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The fish has confused me too. All of the input here has been super helpful, but I do like the explanation that Eeviee gave, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeviee View Post
As for the fish... I have come to associate a single pictoral representation of a fish to be reminiscent of the 'Jesus Fish'. To my understanding, to Christians the fish represents spirituality. I think of the expressions that we are all fish in the same sea. I am then reminded of Global Unity. The we are all one mentality. You can swim with the current or try to go against it.
As for Valenza's statement that 'you cannot hide from yourself', I take this to mean that you cannot hide from who or what you truely are. You cannot hide from yourself, unlike the Hermit and our ability to hide from others. You are never truely alone if you have your fish/your spirituality. Most spiritual paths endorce the idea that there is something connecting you to others and your divinity. Depending on your path, there may be beings looking out for you, looking down on you, trying to communicate and guide you, or there is a higher part of yourself that has access to others and the devine. I believe that this fish represents your true self and your spirituality; connecting you, feeding you, nurturing you, and sometimes challenging you. As the saying goes, "you cannot run from your problems", this Hermit is a picture of the complicated way in which we all must accept our problems, find the best way to deal with them, and learn from our mistakes (or those of others).
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I was looking at this card recently when I noticed and interesting detail: the Hermit's shadow suggests that there is a light source inside the alcove. My first thoughts of course go to the traditional lantern, which is conspicuously absent from the image. But then I wondered, what if the thing that he is cowering from, yet can't seem to look away, is the source of light? Is he seeing "God"? Isn't that what the classic Hermit is searching for with his lantern anyway, in a sense?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herodotus View Post
I was looking at this card recently when I noticed and interesting detail: the Hermit's shadow suggests that there is a light source inside the alcove. My first thoughts of course go to the traditional lantern, which is conspicuously absent from the image. But then I wondered, what if the thing that he is cowering from, yet can't seem to look away, is the source of light? Is he seeing "God"? Isn't that what the classic Hermit is searching for with his lantern anyway, in a sense?
Oh, this is really interesting to me. You're right. It seems the Hermit has his back to the outer world, but is facing something from the "inner" world (as represented by the alcove) that he is still cowering from. Perhaps the source of this light is a kind of inner truth or revelation, which he is struggling to come to terms with - but is also opening an eye to, notably, perhaps beginning the process of seeing, understanding, and accepting what lies within. This brings the card closer to the traditional RW, I think.

As far as the fish goes, it looks like the same fish as in the Fool (as someone else mentioned) and Justice cards. It is first nipping at heels, then clenched in a fist, and now dead and rotting beside him - there's a narrative. "You can't hide from yourself," the booklet says - I see this as being about an inability to hide from your past and your choices, your actions. This reminder of his past is haunting the Hermit even in his alcove. It is a place where he must remember and confront where he has come from and what he has done - and see that his struggles and victories are now in the past.

The fish could also serve as a reminder of time passing. The Hermit has clearly spent some time in this alcove if it is turning into a skeleton.
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