What about the Sun?

I have been trying to keep my study clean from the overemphasis given to the Sun Signs by many of the modern Astrology books. But now, I find myself stupidly incapable of pin-pointing what the Sun really means in a chart.

Many of the book say it symbolized the "Ego", the "Personality", the "True Self" - but if that's true, somehow we go back to limiting the personality to the Sun's position. Other books say the "True Self" is actually represented by the ASC and the Sun is how you show yourself to the world - the first impression you cause.

*sigh*

It seems a bit hard to determine the Sun's role in the chart without falling back into the all-encompassing personality descriptions. I didn't find any objective definition of the portions of life rules by the sun, only things like "personality", "soul", "true self", "ego", that I find very... difficult to grasp. They give me the impression that you are where your Sun is, but then how you balance this with the other planets?

Thank you in advance!

My usual approach is to interpret the Sun in terms of "What's your drive? What's your motive? What do you really want?"

This at least makes sense of my own natal chart. To others, I am a cold fish, deeply Saturnine in demeanor, with Capricorn rising and a newly risen Saturn in XII, still conjunct the ascendant and in close opposition to the Moon. But my Gemini Sun means that I am not happy with simply appearing to be somber, sober, or wise. What I want is to be clever.

The Sun is different in all charts.

In a females chart the location of the Sun represents the timing of marriage.

If it's in the Eastern Quadrant they'll marry early in life or to a younger partner, if the Western Quadrant they'll marry later in life or to an older partner.

The aspect the Sun makes describes their marriage partners, we also use Venus. For men we do the same, but use the Moon and Venus.

The Sun can also, but seldom be the Almuten of Marriage, Wealth, Death, and so on. Again it's different in every chart, you have delineate and judge if it represents any of the following above (marriage, death).

I've read that your Sun Sign signals how people see you and your Rising Sign is how you see yourself.

What the Sun is . . .

When we consider an astrological planet's meanings (Sun, Moon, the planets, etc. we can use two or more categories to organize our thougts and descriptions.
** INNER: Personal attitude, actions, thoughts.
** OUTER: External circumstances, situations and interactions with others.

We can also refine our categories by using spiritual, health, feelings, relationships, career, etc.

However, the first two given categories will serve well as starting points.

SUN-INNER: Vitality, healthyness, will, decision-making, generally positive outlook.
SUN-OUTER: Recognition received, bueraucarcy as it affects you, law and legal affairs.

The Sun is an integrator or planetary energies and symbolism. Aspects to the Sun point to those planets who are "lighted" by the Sun and whose infulence is enhanced and vitalized for good or bad. The factors influencing those planets (other than the Sun) will determine the inclination to "good" or "bad" use of their symbolized influences. The stengthened influence by the Sun can still be redirected into less-positive or unhelpful paths. One of the problems with stressful patterns involving the Sun is that one's health and vitality can be affected.

As for linking the Sun with Signs, I don't see this as being very helpful --- sun-sign interpretations tend to be vague, overly wordy and inclusive. If signs are used, I would apply only the most basic word-symbols associated with Fire, Earth, Air, Water, Cardinal, Fixed and Mutable ---- agressive and creative, acquisitive and stability-oriented, social, sensitive and defensive, etc. The Sun and house positions can be more useful than signs but the effects of planet aspects has to be taken into account. Sun in the 5th means one thing, but a sqaure to Pluto in the 8th is another. Dave

ihcoyc said:

My usual approach is to interpret the Sun in terms of "What's your drive? What's your motive? What do you really want?"

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I like this approach. I have also read somewhere that the Sun shows how you see life... what do you think you can get from it, what is your goal.

ihcoyc said:

This at least makes sense of my own natal chart. To others, I am a cold fish, deeply Saturnine in demeanor, with Capricorn rising and a newly risen Saturn in XII, still conjunct the ascendant and in close opposition to the Moon. But my Gemini Sun means that I am not happy with simply appearing to be somber, sober, or wise. What I want is to be clever.

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I am Sagittarius with Sagittarius rising, so I assume this means I am rather 'what-you-see-is-what-you-get'? My Saturn is conjunct with the ASC, so this tends so make me seem much less 'Sagittarius' than you'd expect... However, I believe my inner goals still fit the basic drive of Sagittarius. Life for me is an endless opportunity to learn and explore.

Roy said:

In a females chart the location of the Sun represents the timing of marriage.

If it's in the Eastern Quadrant they'll marry early in life or to a younger partner, if the Western Quadrant they'll marry later in life or to an older partner.

The aspect the Sun makes describes their marriage partners, we also use Venus. For men we do the same, but use the Moon and Venus.

The Sun can also, but seldom be the Almuten of Marriage, Wealth, Death, and so on. Again it's different in every chart, you have delineate and judge if it represents any of the following above (marriage, death).

Click to expand...

Hi Roy!

I didn't know these attributions of the Sun! Thank you very much for sharing them!
I do not understand however, how do I know which facet the Sun is manifesting in that chart? I mean, in a natal chart, excluding for now progressions, horary charts etc. Does that depend on the House or Aspects?

peaceandkarma said:

I've read that your Sun Sign signals how people see you and your Rising Sign is how you see yourself.

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Yes, I have heard this too, but I am finding it hard to put this concept into practice when analyzing the chart. Maybe I am a bit dumb? LOL!

dadsnook2000 said:

When we consider an astrological planet's meanings (Sun, Moon, the planets, etc. we can use two or more categories to organize our thougts and descriptions.
** INNER: Personal attitude, actions, thoughts.
** OUTER: External circumstances, situations and interactions with others.

We can also refine our categories by using spiritual, health, feelings, relationships, career, etc.

However, the first two given categories will serve well as starting points.

Click to expand...

Thank you - I had not thought of this, and it makes perfect sense. Of course, each planet can have many ways to manifest itself, and I suppose that the House and Aspects determine whether it'll be a more introvert expression or extrovert expression.

dadsnook2000 said:

SUN-INNER: Vitality, healthyness, will, decision-making, generally positive outlook.
SUN-OUTER: Recognition received, bueraucarcy as it affects you, law and legal affairs.

The Sun is an integrator or planetary energies and symbolism. Aspects to the Sun point to those planets who are "lighted" by the Sun and whose infulence is enhanced and vitalized for good or bad. The factors influencing those planets (other than the Sun) will determine the inclination to "good" or "bad" use of their symbolized influences. The stengthened influence by the Sun can still be redirected into less-positive or unhelpful paths. One of the problems with stressful patterns involving the Sun is that one's health and vitality can be affected.

Click to expand...

Thank you very very much! That is a very helpful explanation!
As a celestial body of big importance (and the one we can 'perceive' more clearly in our lives), the Sun seems to have a lot of strength in the chart, from which (I believe) derives the whole Sun Sign hullaballoo. But can the Sun be a weak planet in a chart? If so, what are the effects of having a weak Sun?

dadsnook2000 said:

As for linking the Sun with Signs, I don't see this as being very helpful --- sun-sign interpretations tend to be vague, overly wordy and inclusive. If signs are used, I would apply only the most basic word-symbols associated with Fire, Earth, Air, Water, Cardinal, Fixed and Mutable ---- agressive and creative, acquisitive and stability-oriented, social, sensitive and defensive, etc. The Sun and house positions can be more useful than signs but the effects of planet aspects has to be taken into account. Sun in the 5th means one thing, but a sqaure to Pluto in the 8th is another. Dave

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No, they are not helpful, and that's why I have been trying to keep my notions of the Signs very objective. I agree the descriptions are often verbose and, at the same time, generic. But, because culturally the Sun is so associated to these 'definitions', I started to find it hard to understand the Sun's role in a chart. Many books describe it as one 'personality' or 'true self'... but isn't your whole natal chart supposed to be that? That is why I asked the question.

In my study I have found that the sum of Element + Mode + Polarity is a good way to understand the Signs in a basic level without attributing to them more characteristics, or more importance, than they actually have.

For Marina

As I read my reply, and your reply to my comments, it seems that I did not emphasize one factor in understanding the Sun as a symbol.

While the Sun does indeed have the INNER and OUTER characteristics that I indicated (others can be included or substituted), I feel that much of the Sun's power is DIRECTED through the planets it aspects or has relationships with. The Sun is that big energy blasting thing in the middle of our sky and solar system. It is influenced by the patterns of the planets as they circle the Sun and make alignments or aspects among themselves --- it is the combination of aspects and relationships and how they change the Sun and influence our Earth that we don't understand.

Is it gravity, magnetics, resonance, or something else that directly affects us? Or do these factors affect the Earth, which in turn affects us (as Dave Roell of astroamerica.com suggests). Since the "zodiac" exists only on the surface of the Earth, when something has an influence of the Earth and then upon us, this might make sense. On the other hand, the Philosopher Rudolph Steiner claims that planets block sign influences?

We do not understand these and other possible influences --- yet. But, we can measure and observe these influences through Astrology. So, back to my premise. The Sun, by its very presence in our sky and the seasonal cycles, has a basic organizing principle that operates upon us. The Sun also works through the planets, energizing them according to their nature and interrelationships with each other. There is a parallel process going on here.

The Sun's parallel influence (direct and re-routed through the planets) reaches us in many ways. The Sun has its own basic influence PLUS the modified influence of each planet that it works through. This quite is unlike the duality or changing influence of the Moon due to its own symbolism as our primary needs, past lives, etc., and its reflection of the Sun's forces in the sense of being a polarity force. Hope this makes sense to you. Dave

Would the concept of a Director (movie or play) be at all appropriate here?

The Rising sign vs Sun sign as to how people see you/how one 'is'.

I have always heard the opposite. That is, people 'see' you as your Rising sign, because that sign 'colors' the First house, which you 'project' to the outside world.

The Sun is how you 'are', or, as ihcoyc said, the Sun refers to your drive, motive, "what you REALLY want".

dadsnook2000;2974184h said:

l

While the Sun does indeed have the k and OUTER characteristics that I indicated (others can be included or substituted), I feel that much of the Sun's power is DIRECTED through the planets it aspects or has relationships with. The Sun is that big energy blasting thing in the middle of our sky and solar system. It is influenced by the patterns of the planets as they circle the Sun and make alignments or aspects among themselves --- it is the combination of aspects and relationships and how they change the Sun and influence our Earth that we don't understand

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The original theory of aspects had the reflection of light as the essence of an aspect. Now in order to reflect light there needs to be a source of light and that source in Astrologynis the sun. So if Saturn aspects Jupiter, it means that the Sun's light is reflected by Saturn to Jupiter. I think this ties in closely with Dave's point, as without the Sun, Saturn could not aspect Jupiter, or any planet aspect another body or point, nor could we identify the rising or setting of stars and planets. Without the Sun, there can be no Astrology!

But all these dimensions need to be incorporated in our interpretation. So Dave is right to make the points in his post above.