Owning your own house??

[pacificwaters]

Hello everybody,

I am not very comfortable expressing myself in astrology in English as I am an Indian and our local references are a bit different. But nevertheless, I have gathered a few facts regarding the correct terms for the same and am posting this question. I would appreciate your views on this.

In my natal chart the Lord of the 4th house (Sun) is in the 6th house. Meanwhile Saturn is in the 4th house. I have been told that it causes problems for owning your own house – no problems if you stay in a rented place. But problems, definitely if its your OWN house…Is it so??

Thanks in advance

[Minderwiz]

Originally Posted by pacificwaters

Hello everybody,

I am not very comfortable expressing myself in astrology in English as I am an Indian and our local references are a bit different. But nevertheless, I have gathered a few facts regarding the correct terms for the same and am posting this question. I would appreciate your views on this.

In my natal chart the Lord of the 4th house (Sun) is in the 6th house. Meanwhile Saturn is in the 4th house. I have been told that it causes problems for owning your own house – no problems if you stay in a rented place. But problems, definitely if its your OWN house…Is it so??

Thanks in advance

I can see the logic of what you have been told but I think it's an oversimplification. The fourth house does include your land and fixed property - so it would include your house. As you've probably been told this by an Indian Astrologer, I'm assuming they used Whole Sign houses, and Saturn is in Leo, where it is in detriment and the Sun would be in Libra where it is in Fall. So yes you could (but not you will) have problems with fourth house matters. Whether these are likely to materialise depends on the rest of your chart, not just your house ruler and house tenant.

The fourth covers other matters, it's also the house of your father and your parents (together) and your family (all of them), so that potential (if it is strong enough) could show up in family issues.

However don't assume that it will have to be a strong potential or that it will necessarily materrialise. Also even if it did materialise, that doesn't mean that the problem will be something that you can't deal with. Sun in Libra is in the exaltation of Saturn and Saturn in Leo is in the Domicile of the Sun - there is a mutual reception. Furthermore it's possible that the two are in sextile. So things are not necessarily serious, they simply require some care in fourth house matters.

I don't see any real reason why owning is threatened but renting is not. Yes the fourth covers your property but it also covers your home (whether rented or owned, temporary or permanent).

Saturn represents challenges, but then life is made up of challenges. How we deal with them is what enables us to grow and develop, It's not inevitable that you will have problems with your home/house by any means and if you refuse to think about buying because of this 'prophecy' then you are limiting yourself. Saturn always requires care but as long as you exercise that care, I seen no necessary reason why you can't enjoy your own home - or any fourth house matter or activity.

[pacificwaters]

Originally Posted by Minderwiz

I can see the logic of what you have been told but I think it's an oversimplification. The fourth house does include your land and fixed property - so it would include your house. As you've probably been told this by an Indian Astrologer, I'm assuming they used Whole Sign houses, and Saturn is in Leo, where it is in detriment and the Sun would be in Libra where it is in Fall. So yes you could (but not you will) have problems with fourth house matters. Whether these are likely to materialise depends on the rest of your chart, not just your house ruler and house tenant.

Your post has been quite encouraging for me, considering that this aspect came to light after I had bought my own house. Buying one's own house was always a dream for me. I know little of astrology, so I had to turn here for an opinion. Thank you Minderwiz. If and when I discuss on this aspect again, I shall definitely come back to this thread for more clarifications

Originally Posted by Minderwiz

The fourth covers other matters, it's also the house of your father and your parents (together) and your family (all of them), so that potential (if it is strong enough) could show up in family issues.

I have been having quite some discussion on this topic as well, especially the fourth house, since if I am not mistaken it also covers in-laws (with whom I have strained relations)!! If I remember well, what I was told, this house is about relations with father-in-law???? Please excuse me if I am wrong..!

Originally Posted by Minderwiz

However don't assume that it will have to be a strong potential or that it will necessarily materrialise. Also even if it did materialise, that doesn't mean that the problem will be something that you can't deal with. Sun in Libra is in the exaltation of Saturn and Saturn in Leo is in the Domicile of the Sun - there is a mutual reception. Furthermore it's possible that the two are in sextile. So things are not necessarily serious, they simply require some care in fourth house matters.

I don't see any real reason why owning is threatened but renting is not. Yes the fourth covers your property but it also covers your home (whether rented or owned, temporary or permanent).

Speaking in strictly Indian terminology, I was told this house is about "Vaastu".(I am sorry but I am not aware of its English equivalent.) So it applies more for owned property than a rented property. Since I am not well versed in astrology (as compared to Tarot, where I can at least call myself an amateur ) I can only quote what I was told, without a logic for it...

Originally Posted by Minderwiz

Saturn represents challenges, but then life is made up of challenges. How we deal with them is what enables us to grow and develop, It's not inevitable that you will have problems with your home/house by any means and if you refuse to think about buying because of this 'prophecy' then you are limiting yourself. Saturn always requires care but as long as you exercise that care, I seen no necessary reason why you can't enjoy your own home - or any fourth house matter or activity.

Like I said Minderwiz, thanks for these words. Indians are a bit superstitious.I am one myself but your words just uplifted me a bit. If you do not mind I shall get back on this thread with more about this topic when I discuss this with my astrologer

[Minderwiz]

Originally Posted by pacificwaters

Your post has been quite encouraging for me, considering that this aspect came to light after I had bought my own house. Buying one's own house was always a dream for me. I know little of astrology, so I had to turn here for an opinion. Thank you Minderwiz. If and when I discuss on this aspect again, I shall definitely come back to this thread for more clarifications

Please do, as you are clearly concerned with this matter and I'm quite happy to help.

Originally Posted by pacificwaters

I have been having quite some discussion on this topic as well, especially the fourth house, since if I am not mistaken it also covers in-laws (with whom I have strained relations)!! If I remember well, what I was told, this house is about relations with father-in-law???? Please excuse me if I am wrong..!

There is a link with in-laws through derived houses (sometimes called turning the chart). Your wife or partner is given the Seventh house (starting at the descendant). Measuring from the Descendant, her father is her fourth house (the tenth House of the chart) and his wife/partner is given by the opposite house, that is the fourth. So the fourth house would signify your mother-in-law, Now derived houses are secondary meanings and usually reserved for considering a specific relationship or thing, which is indirectly connected to you. However, despite only being indirectly related,a mother-in-law can be a significant factor in someone's life.

Originally Posted by pacificwaters

Speaking in strictly Indian terminology, I was told this house is about "Vaastu".(I am sorry but I am not aware of its English equivalent.) So it applies more for owned property than a rented property. Since I am not well versed in astrology (as compared to Tarot, where I can at least call myself an amateur ) I can only quote what I was told, without a logic for it...

In traditional Western Astrology (which is a cousin of Vedic Astrology) the fourth house also is treated as ruling or signifying owned property. However the property where you live is also fourth house (assuming it is your permanent abode) - the owner of such property (your landlord) would be seventh house. No other house can be construed to be your dwelling or home, in terms of the building and the land on which it stands. The first house can be used for 'you at home', but this applies whether the property is owned or rented.and if an Astrologer is considering that property (owned or rented) he or she should look at the fourth.

Originally Posted by pacificwaters

Like I said Minderwiz, thanks for these words. Indians are a bit superstitious.I am one myself but your words just uplifted me a bit. If you do not mind I shall get back on this thread with more about this topic when I discuss this with my astrologer

As I understand it, Vedic Astrology tends to be more fatalistic than Western. I think this is due to a predominant rural environment, where people are at the mercy of the elements and nature. Urban societies tend to be more probabilistic in their approach to life, as the town dweller is more able to influence day to day events by their own actions (though of course still subject to natural events). As India develops an urban society, both in practice and in regarding it as a 'natural' environment I think that will change. I also think you might find many current Vedic Astrologers who take a less deterministic approach (and you can find quite a few Western Astrologers who can be very deterministic)

Now bear in mind that I haven't seen your full chart and your Astrologer but I would stress that fatalistic or deterministic approaches tend to be self-fulfilling - their followers take the view that nothing can be done and so try nothing to change future events. If you see a car hurtling towards you as you cross the road, you can either take the view that you need to jump out of the way or it will hit you, or you can take the view that it's going to hit you and do nothing. The former course of action may still result in being hit, though you may indeed escape. The lattter course will certainly result in you being hit.

Remember you are in charge of your life, not the Astrologer. He or she might help (or hinder) through their advice. If your Astrologer persists in the view that you will suffer by owning your own house, try asking them what actions you can take to avoid this (or at least minimise it). If they say there's nothing to be done, then find a new Astrologer, because in that they are wrong.

PS Would you mind posting your chart details, it will make it easier for me (and others) to help you in any further queries about this issue.

[pacificwaters]

Originally Posted by Minderwiz

As I understand it, Vedic Astrology tends to be more fatalistic than Western. I think this is due to a predominant rural environment, where people are at the mercy of the elements and nature. Urban societies tend to be more probabilistic in their approach to life, as the town dweller is more able to influence day to day events by their own actions (though of course still subject to natural events). As India develops an urban society, both in practice and in regarding it as a 'natural' environment I think that will change. I also think you might find many current Vedic Astrologers who take a less deterministic approach (and you can find quite a few Western Astrologers who can be very deterministic)

Well, a predominant rural environment, would be a very narrow view here. Its not just the rural environment I would say when it comes to astrology. Its the fact that astrology has a lot of base here maybe because the Vedic astrology has its roots here. No doubt as you say the urban folks are probabilistic, but then they also consult astrology (rather more) than the rural folks in India. The rural folks are usually the happy go lucky kinds. Its the urban folks who are more into astrology - doing "havans" (holy rituals), wearing a host of gemstones, etc. etc.

Originally Posted by Minderwiz

Now bear in mind that I haven't seen your full chart and your Astrologer but I would stress that fatalistic or deterministic approaches tend to be self-fulfilling - their followers take the view that nothing can be done and so try nothing to change future events. If you see a car hurtling towards you as you cross the road, you can either take the view that you need to jump out of the way or it will hit you, or you can take the view that it's going to hit you and do nothing. The former course of action may still result in being hit, though you may indeed escape. The lattter course will certainly result in you being hit.

Remember you are in charge of your life, not the Astrologer. He or she might help (or hinder) through their advice. If your Astrologer persists in the view that you will suffer by owning your own house, try asking them what actions you can take to avoid this (or at least minimise it). If they say there's nothing to be done, then find a new Astrologer, because in that they are wrong.

You are quite right. Fatalistic and deterministic approaches - a very apt word here. I dont know how and what remedies the Western astrology advices, but in the astrology practiced in India it is usually about doing certain holy rituals, wearing stones (I never do this) or visiting certain shrines. Since you are a student of astrology, I think you might be knowing about these practices...

Originally Posted by Minderwiz

PS Would you mind posting your chart details, it will make it easier for me (and others) to help you in any further queries about this issue.

After your last post I have had a discussion about this topic with my astrologer again to know the exact reasons behind his views and so that I could quote him verbatim. This is what he stated and the reasons behind it, according to him

- 4th house is regarding an individuals “home”, family happiness, his mother and his father in law.

- 6th house is of illness and enemies

Therefore whichever planet may be the lord of the 4th house, if it is placed in 6th house (Sun in my case) illnesses and tensions become a problem while staying in an “owned house”. This formed the basis regarding my question about owning a house. Discussing about the remedy with him, well he is of the view that a rented house would suit me more than an “owned one”. As I stated above I just 2 years back realized my dream of owning a house, especially because staying in a rented house comes with its own share of practical problems – escalating rents and the whims of your landlord!! Besides now that I have my own house, I would never like to stay in a rented house again…!!!!!!

Regarding my chart details, well I am unaware of the exact format you would be viewing it in. So here are my basic details

Date of birth: 24 October, 1978
Time of birth: 21:20 hours (9:20 PM)
Place: Pune, Maharashtra, India

In case you need a basic chart and not these details, please let me know the source/website for it. I shall try to get the chart accordingly. Thank you once again for your help

[Minderwiz]

Thanks for your natal details and the quotes from your Astrologer

Originally Posted by Pacificwaters

This is what he stated and the reasons behind it, according to him

- 4th house is regarding an individuals “home”, family happiness, his mother and his father in law.

- 6th house is of illness and enemies

Therefore whichever planet may be the lord of the 4th house, if it is placed in 6th house (Sun in my case) illnesses and tensions become a problem while staying in an “owned house”. This formed the basis regarding my question about owning a house. Discussing about the remedy with him, well he is of the view that a rented house would suit me more than an “owned one”. As I stated above I just 2 years back realized my dream of owning a house, especially because staying in a rented house comes with its own share of practical problems – escalating rents and the whims of your landlord!! Besides now that I have my own house, I would never like to stay in a rented house again…!!!!!!

There are two issues here, as far as I can see (and possibly more). The first is the interpretation given above, in it's own terms and the second is the difference between Western Astrology and Vedic (which makes direct comparison very difficult)

Firstly in terms of the interpretation that he gave you I can and do see the logic of it. However I think he's putting too much weight on ownership here - even in a vedic context. I've taken the trouble to check up on a couple of vedic websites and my copy of Komilla Sutton and whilst his use of houses is correct, they all seem to see problems with Lord 4 being in the sixth as showing up in the domestic environment or family issues (and it seems that vedic Astrology transposes the houses of the father and mother, relative to Western placement, so you are quite right in your original statement about the fourth being the house of the father-in-law) So renting your home does not insulate you from this trouble (assuming it materialises) - you could still have issues regarding your in-laws, your mother or your home, in terms of its fabric and condition.

For the second point, you need to be aware of at least two significant differences between Vedic and Western Astrology in terms of casting the chart and these two differences are very likely to lead a Western Astrologer to a different conclusion.

The first difference is the zodiac used - Vedic Astrology uses a sidereal zodiac - one based on the stars, whereas Western Astrology uses one based on the equinoxes and solstices - the tropical zodiac. About the time that Alexander the Great invaded India in the fourth Century BCE, these two zodiacs were very much in line and it's very likely that the horoscopic chart was introduced into India by the Greek invaders. However by the early first Millennium CE there was a noticeable difference between the seasons and the sidereal zodiac - the equinox no longer occurred in Aries, but shifted into Pisces. Over the last two thousand years this 'gap' has widened. So in a Vedic Astrology your birth occured under the sign of Libra, whereas in Western Astrology your birth occured under the sign of Scorpio (incidentally we share the same birthday) As Greek control over North West India had long since ended, the debates that almost certainly went on in the Hellenisitic and Roman world over what steps if any to do about the perceived shift of the equinoxes against the stars, were not echoed in India. We have almost nothing surviving over this debate but we do know that the Astrologer/Astronomer Ptolemy stressed the advantage of the tropical zodiac and that is what ended up being used here. In realith it's possible Ptolemy was in a minority, but it was his works that survived the collapse of the Roman Empire in the West and were used both by later Arab and Persian Astrologers and passed back into the West.

Secondly the Greeks introduced their own house system into India - the Whole Sign system. This held in the West until the early middle ages, but gradually gave way to a system based on the four cardinal points Ascendant/Descendent and MC/IC (also developed by the Greeks) and which gives unequal houses. So your Astrologer is actually using the original horoscopic system and one that a number of Western traditionalists are re-examining (though combined with the tropical zodiac)

I've attached a copy of your natal chart, as I would prepare it (and it's going to be almost exactly the same, produced by other Western Astrologers. As you can see the switch to a Tropical Zodiac doesn't really alter the 'shape' of the planets' positions in the chart. I don't use the outer two planets or the various other dwarfs, asteroids, etc used by many Western Astrologers, so when you compare it to a Vedic chart the similarity of 'shape' will be reasonably obvious - the only thing being that I use the Western circular chart, not the traditional square chart used in the West until the eighteenth century and still used in India)

However, if you look more closely you will see that your Ascendant is in Gemini, not Taurus and that the sign on the fourth (which begins at the IC) is Virgo, which makes Lord 4 Mercury.

If you look at the position of Mercury, you will see that he lies in the fifth House, not the sixth (as indeed so does the Sun and Venus). So sickness due to your home or property, mother, in-laws or from finding buried treasure, etc is not something that would even occur to me. Instead, the fifth House placement of Lord 4 would suggest that it expresses itself through fun, joy, lesiure and children. Indeed with Venus in the fifth, where it naturally joys, you have a fifth house that is likely to be rewarding.

That being said, you still have Saturn conjunct the IC (the fourth cusp) and that Saturn is Peregrine (no essential dignity) so there may still be issues with fourth house matters and you still need to exercise some care There is some good news in that Saturn in Virgo is ruled by Mercury and is sextile to Mercury, so Saturn is received into Virgo by Mercury and is less likely to be a source of trouble than if no such aspect existed. Saturn also opposes the MC, so you might find it shows up more in a conflict between home life and career or even clashes with your mother or indeed your father-in-law (signified by the tenth in Western Astrology).

So we both agree that relations with your father in law might be strained but I don't that you'll have problems at home, through owning your own house (though Saturn may bring other issues). I won't even go into who's right or wrong here, as two different Astrological systems are in play, all that I would say is that I don't think a vedic interpretation has to focus solely on home ownership as a cause of problems.

Originally Posted by pacificwaters

You are quite right. Fatalistic and deterministic approaches - a very apt word here. I dont know how and what remedies the Western astrology advices, but in the astrology practiced in India it is usually about doing certain holy rituals, wearing stones (I never do this) or visiting certain shrines. Since you are a student of astrology, I think you might be knowing about these practices...

There may well be some New Age Astrologers out there who would agree with the use of gemstones or attuning their chakras, and there may well be something to that. There is though, an old proverb that the gods help those who help themselves - so dealing with issues requires you to change behaviour and act in a way that minimises the risks and perhaps seeks new opportunities. That's not inimical with wearing gemstones but it's based on the idea that propitiating the gods is not enough or even needed in a superstitious sense.

[pacificwaters]

Thank you so very much for your detailed information, the historical explanation as well as the one pertaining to my question.

I am currently reading Robert Place's Tarot: History Symbolism and Divination. There is mention of Ptolemy in this book and how his rule played a part in the development of Tarot's history. It was interesting to note in your post how Ptolemy was also involved actively in astrology and astronomy.

As regards your mention about Vedic and Western astrology, I was aware of these two different branches for the same subject but I was not aware of how they evolved. Reading about it and about the differences in house allocation, especially father and mother and the in-laws accordingly was interesting. But can this not in turn cause a major difference in the final interpretation???

There is though, an old proverb that the gods help those who help themselves - so dealing with issues requires you to change behaviour and act in a way that minimises the risks and perhaps seeks new opportunities.

Just as I was finishing this post, this above quoted line by you in your post struck me. Surprisingly this was also the advice my astrologer was giving me yesterday when I was talking about a remedy for the problem which he saw for me. But I didn't relate to it as I thought this might be something of a general advice and not exclusive for my query

P.S. : Nice to find someone who shares my birthday even if you are almost double my age

[Minderwiz]

Originally Posted by pacificwaters

I am currently reading Robert Place's Tarot: History Symbolism and Divination. There is mention of Ptolemy in this book and how his rule played a part in the development of Tarot's history. It was interesting to note in your post how Ptolemy was also involved actively in astrology and astronomy.

There is are more than one Ptolemys in the classical period, including the younger brother of Cleopatra and several Pharaohs of Egypt (all descended from the Greek general of Alexander the Great who became King of Egypt after the death and break up of Alexander's empire)

The person that I refer to is Claudius Ptolemy who lived during the second century AD in the city of Alexandria in Egypt (itself of Greek origin) He is credited as the father of Astronomy and his works on Astrology were largely to determine the nature of Western Astrology for the next 2,000 years. It's only recently that we have come to realise that the Astrology he wrote about was not, as was thought, the universal practice of the Hellenistic world. We are now aware of many other Astrologers of his era who practised significantly different variants. Nevertheless Ptolemy's writings are what primarily ensured a break between the astrology as practised in the West and that practised in India.

[quote=pacificwaters]
As regards your mention about Vedic and Western astrology, I was aware of these two different branches for the same subject but I was not aware of how they evolved. Reading about it and about the differences in house allocation, especially father and mother and the in-laws accordingly was interesting. But can this not in turn cause a major difference in the final interpretation???[/qupte]

There is some similarity in some of the rules of interpretation, however for an individual chart it's quite likely that there will be significant differences in emphasis, as house rulers will almost certainly differ and house placements may also be affected - as you can see from the Western version of your chart.

It's worth pointing out that in the Western version of your chart, Mars rules the sixth and is also the dispositor of Sun, Venus and Mercury (the ruler of your fourth). There is still a link between sixth and fourth although significantly more remote than in the Vedic chart.

Also interpretation is affected by the personality and outlook of the Astrologer. I can find you quite a few Modern Western Astrologers who seem to take a very fatalistic line, especially where Pluto is concerned. Personally I don't think one can be specific on which fourth house area will be affected by, say, Saturn in your fourth simply from your natal chart. All that can be given is a range of possible areas, modified as necessay by the placement of the house ruler and aspects. Nor can one say for certain that it will manifest, only that it is probable or improbable. More detail can be obtained from derived charts, such as solar returns, profections, secondary progressions and transits or other predictive methods such as Time Lord systems which date back to Hellenistic and Persian times.

Originally Posted by pacificwaters

Just as I was finishing this post, this above quoted line by you in your post struck me. Surprisingly this was also the advice my astrologer was giving me yesterday when I was talking about a remedy for the problem which he saw for me. But I didn't relate to it as I thought this might be something of a general advice and not exclusive for my query

Given that all I have to go on is your natal chart, I'd probably be more concerned about possible disruption to your home environment from the Saturn/MC opposition. That may relate to your inlaws or your career - work pressures can be particularly disruptive to home environments. Saturn also links your fourth to the eighth - which could be inheritances, taxes or your partner's income and resources (the latter could be particularly an issue if you have a joint mortgage and then start to have a family).

Those are simply possibilities not certainties or even strong probabilities but they are things that you can be aware of and taken into consideration in managing your life. None of them in anyway require you to cease to be a house owner, but they may mean that you have to pay more attention to your work/home balance or not allowing issues with your inlaws to disrupts your home, etc. Looking at periodic derived charts might help you to spot points in time when such things may come to the fore and thus take precautionary action. So using the inlaws as an example, you might find a way of managing your relations with them that ensures that domestic disruption is kept to a minimum, even if you find such actions quite hard to implement (and with Saturn involved they won't be easy).

[pacificwaters]

Originally Posted by Minderwiz

There is are more than one Ptolemys in the classical period, including the younger brother of Cleopatra and several Pharaohs of Egypt (all descended from the Greek general of Alexander the Great who became King of Egypt after the death and break up of Alexander's empire)

The person that I refer to is Claudius Ptolemy who lived during the second century AD in the city of Alexandria in Egypt (itself of Greek origin) He is credited as the father of Astronomy and his works on Astrology were largely to determine the nature of Western Astrology for the next 2,000 years. It's only recently that we have come to realise that the Astrology he wrote about was not, as was thought, the universal practice of the Hellenistic world. We are now aware of many other Astrologers of his era who practised significantly different variants. Nevertheless Ptolemy's writings are what primarily ensured a break between the astrology as practised in the West and that practised in India.

OK, so we have the Ptolemic dynasty here....And I had thought that there was only one Ptolemy!! Thank you for enriching me on this. I was absolutely unaware of this.

Originally Posted by Minderwiz

Personally I don't think one can be specific on which fourth house area will be affected by, say, Saturn in your fourth simply from your natal chart. All that can be given is a range of possible areas, modified as necessay by the placement of the house ruler and aspects. Nor can one say for certain that it will manifest, only that it is probable or improbable. More detail can be obtained from derived charts, such as solar returns, profections, secondary progressions and transits or other predictive methods such as Time Lord systems which date back to Hellenistic and Persian times.

I liked the way you mentioned this point. It sort of clarified some aspects which I had not asked but which after discussion with my astrologer some months back were definitely at the back of my mind and hence obviously also had me a bit troubled.

Originally Posted by Minderwiz

Given that all I have to go on is your natal chart, I'd probably be more concerned about possible disruption to your home environment from the Saturn/MC opposition. That may relate to your inlaws or your career - work pressures can be particularly disruptive to home environments. Saturn also links your fourth to the eighth - which could be inheritances, taxes or your partner's income and resources (the latter could be particularly an issue if you have a joint mortgage and then start to have a family).

Those are simply possibilities not certainties or even strong probabilities but they are things that you can be aware of and taken into consideration in managing your life. None of them in anyway require you to cease to be a house owner, but they may mean that you have to pay more attention to your work/home balance or not allowing issues with your inlaws to disrupts your home, etc.

You might call me superstitious but the actual reason about whether owning/buying a house for me was the right decision or not crept up just because of the flooding of disruptions in my life. Comparing with or rather giving a feedback to what you wrote, my family life is absolutely disrupted due to excessive in law interferences. No doubt therefore my relations with my in-laws are far from cordial. You have definitely touched on the father-in-law aspect. The front at the workplace is also not worth mentioning. All these in turn led to the question as to whether owning a house was a correct decision as everything sort of started after I bought my house..!! I might have deviated from the question but seeing your analysis I couldn't refrain from adding up 2 and 2 here.

Originally Posted by Minderwiz

Looking at periodic derived charts might help you to spot points in time when such things may come to the fore and thus take precautionary action. So using the inlaws as an example, you might find a way of managing your relations with them that ensures that domestic disruption is kept to a minimum, even if you find such actions quite hard to implement (and with Saturn involved they won't be easy).

I am quite aware of the importance of the periodic derieved charts and their importance but I am not well versed with its importance. I at the most can be said to have a very superficial knowledge about which combinations are good and which are not.

Also since we are talking about Saturn (referred to Lord Shani in Indian mythology) I couldn't refrain from quoting this about Saturn from what I heard in a astrology related show and which my astrologer often tells me - Saturn is a very hard taskmaster. It gives you the toughest lessons of life and helps you know who your real friends are when it brings along with it the tough times

[Minderwiz]

Originally Posted by pacificwaters

You might call me superstitious but the actual reason about whether owning/buying a house for me was the right decision or not crept up just because of the flooding of disruptions in my life. Comparing with or rather giving a feedback to what you wrote, my family life is absolutely disrupted due to excessive in law interferences. No doubt therefore my relations with my in-laws are far from cordial. You have definitely touched on the father-in-law aspect. The front at the workplace is also not worth mentioning. All these in turn led to the question as to whether owning a house was a correct decision as everything sort of started after I bought my house..!! I might have deviated from the question but seeing your analysis I couldn't refrain from adding up 2 and 2 here.

I'm not sure from this, whether it was the issue of owning your own home that led to the inlaws becoming a problem but my feeling is that whilst that might have been the specific trigger here, if you had not have owned your own home, there could well have been such a disruption set off by another issue.

Originally Posted by pacificwaters

Also since we are talking about Saturn (referred to Lord Shani in Indian mythology) I couldn't refrain from quoting this about Saturn from what I heard in a astrology related show and which my astrologer often tells me - Saturn is a very hard taskmaster. It gives you the toughest lessons of life and helps you know who your real friends are when it brings along with it the tough times

I agree with your Astrologer here, Saturn is indeed a hard taskmaster and he forces us to learn (and hence develop) even if the experience is uncomfortable. Saturn also represents the 'father figure' and 'time' and in a real sense your challenge here is the transition between 'son' and 'father' - that is of becoming an adult both physically but also gaining social and familial recognition as such. The same holds true for your wife, who may still be seen as 'daughter' rather than 'woman'.

The task is to convince your father in law that you are a 'responsible adult and in turn the father (either present or future) of his grandchildren - he and you need to get on as respected equals, even if you don't agree on everything. This is a learning process for both of you. He needs to recognise that you have now taken his place as the guardian and protector of his daughter and that your role is based on a deep and committed mutual love (you and her) more especially he needs to learn that you value his advice, experience and friendship but that also, as an adult, be free to make your own decisions, even if he feels some of them are mistaken - that's not easy but you have to find a way of doing it, otherwise the disruption in your home will continue, as one issue gives way to another, with periods of uneasy peace in between.