French Lenormand tradition?

I understand that there are regional and personal variations in Lenormand systems, i.e. what the cards mean and the spreads used. The main differences in card meanings relate to work, money and sex. The meanings I have adopted, which resonate best with me, are broadly consistent with those used by Sylvie Steinbach and those on the Serena Powers website. Some people refer to these meanings as the "French" Lenormand tradition or school versus the "German" tradition and I would like to know how they arrive at that label other than the fact that Sylvie is French and learned from her aunt.

I asked Serena Powers about her meanings and based on her reply do not believe her card meanings can be considered definitive of any particular Lenormand "school", or at least not a French one:

I am not able to define all the different systems clearly. I myself got a lot of my information Dutch websites. Lenormand cards are very popular in the Netherlands.

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So what I am asking is, if anyone here uses the term "French Lenormand tradition" what are they basing it on? What makes Sylvie's meanings "French school" versus just "Sylvie's school"?

Also if anyone here has French Lenormand books, e.g. by Colette Sylvestre, can they please tell me what cards she uses for work, money and sex?

IheartTarot said:

I understand that there are regional and personal variations in Lenormand systems, i.e. what the cards mean and the spreads used. The main differences in card meanings relate to work, money and sex. The meanings I have adopted, which resonate best with me, are broadly consistent with those used by Sylvie Steinbach and those on the Serena Powers website. Some people refer to these meanings as the "French" Lenormand tradition or school versus the "German" tradition and I would like to know how they arrive at that label other than the fact that Sylvie is French and learned from her aunt.

I asked Serena Powers about her meanings and based on her reply do not believe her card meanings can be considered definitive of any particular Lenormand "school", or at least not a French one:



So what I am asking is, if anyone here uses the term "French Lenormand tradition" what are they basing it on? What makes Sylvie's meanings "French school" versus just "Sylvie's school"?

Also if anyone here has French Lenormand books, e.g. by Colette Sylvestre, can they please tell me what cards she uses for work, money and sex?

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Most of the card meanings are consistent between all the schools.

The Dutch-Belgium meanings (which are what I use), are very similar to the French. The German and the Spanish schools are viritually identical.

In Beligum and Holland, the Moon is considered one of/the main work card, as opposed to the Anchor. In France the main card is Fox and has been for a very long time. I have a set of Lenormand from 1890 printed in Belgium (Etit jeu) and the meanings are quite consistent.

The Bear is also female and money in that school, and the French, but represents an official in Germany and Spain and is normally seen as male.

I've never seen any mention of the Bear as money in German. Whilst the cards are popular in the Netherlands, there is not as many books as there is in German and French. Therefore you do see cross-over as people seek out sources.

andybc said:

In Beligum and Holland, the Moon is considered one of/the main work card, as opposed to the Anchor. In France the main card is Fox and has been for a very long time. I have a set of Lenormand from 1890 printed in Belgium (Etit jeu) and the meanings are quite consistent.

The Bear is also female and money in that school, and the French, but represents an official in Germany and Spain and is normally seen as male.

I've never seen any mention of the Bear as money in German. Whilst the cards are popular in the Netherlands, there is not as many books as there is in German and French. Therefore you do see cross-over as people seek out sources.

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Thanks andybc, I appreciate your reply.

andybc said:

The Dutch-Belgium meanings (which are what I use), are very similar to the French.

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Good to know. That probably explains why Serena and Sylvie have similar card meanings.

IheartTarot said:

Thanks andybc, I appreciate your reply.

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It's something I find interesting. I don't have the book you mentioned, but I know someone who does. If nobody else can provide translations I'll see if she can.

Good to know. That probably explains why Serena and Sylvie have similar card meanings.

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I think the main differences are in theme cards, then method of interpretation. I've not seen any emphasis on distance in German sources I've accessed. In addition, I think its been exagerated about Sylvie changing cards - I really don't think she ever did, or at least substantially.

Sylvie learnt the traditional way (French) as well from her grandmother and mother (female family members), I think, and is also learned with the Tarot.

Sylvie's background is French if my memory serves me well.

No, Sylvie didn't change many of the meanings. I think the differences can be summed up to personal interpretations and experience. Same as anyone else that reads cards. Besides, I tend to agree with pretty much all her interps given that I was influenced by the French method myself.

I also remember crossing Ts with PR on a few things, but then that was because it was her way or the highway attitdude. Not to mention people's requests that they follow her method to get help on the forum (at one point someone had done a spread and was told that since she didn't use the No layout, she should start over), ans not interpretation per say.

Anyways, I digress... Only to say that the methods and interpretations don't matter as long as the person is consistent in their application. As Andy says, there are a lot more similarities than divergeant points of view.

LE

lord_ewin said:

I tend to agree with pretty much all her interps given that I was influenced by the French method myself.

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LE, can you be more specific regarding "the French method" you were influenced by? Did you learn from a person or a book and if so which author?

Someone in another group shared this website with me. The site owners are in Belgium but the language is French. These meanings are quite similar to mine.

Rider = someone approaching, movement
Clover = chance, positive qualifier
Ship = travel, foreigner, means of transport
House = family, home, safety
Tree = health, serenity
Clouds = concerns
Snake = loose woman, hypocrisy, dishonesty
Coffin = disease, death, ending
Bouquet = happiness, success
Scythe = worker, peasant, break
Whip = aggressive man, conflict
Birds = expression, communication, exchange, thoughts
Child = child, teenager, young woman, innocence, freshness, hope, naivete
Fox = cunning person, need for caution, working for money (not profession per se)
Bear = bully, money
Stars = serenity
Storks = mother, change, relocation
Dog = friend
Tower = public place, authority
Garden = connections
Mountain = enemy, major problem, negative card
Crossroad = choice
Mice = annoyance, loss of money
Heart = young man, feelings
Ring = union, partnership, marriage
Book = topic, secret, book
Letter = news
Man = person card
Woman = person card
Lily = righteousness, duty, peace, light, maturity
Sun = energy, success, realization, positive card
Moon = mother, illusions, boredom, dreams
Key = solution, resolution, positive card
Fish = profession, business sense, independence, success, adventure
Anchor = endurance, determination
Cross = misfortune, religion

IheartTarot said:

Someone in another group shared this website with me. The site owners are in Belgium but the language is French. These meanings are quite similar to mine.

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These are translations from the Etit Jeu Lenormand, which was printed in Belgium in 1890. :

Snake:
Is a sign of unhappiness which is governed according by how near or far it is from the person, but she always bring to you loss after treachery and hypocrisy.

Whip:
Means arguments within the family, chagrins and domestic dissension, as well as and fevers and prolonged illness.

Bear:
Means happiness, and at the same time warns you must avoid the company and all conversations with people envious of you.

Moon:
Is a sign of great honour if located next to the person, however if she is away it announces a misfortune.


Ronia also posted translations from a French source. If you got the CartaMundi deck with poems those are French, but the booklet is written by Erna Droesbeke von Enge who is Belgian Lenormand reader.


the main difference in Germany and France in the treatment of the Fox and Snake. In French meanings you tend to get a consistent negative view of the Snake, but in Germany and most Dutch meanings, the Snake is not always bad. Just a cold, aloof, intelligent woman unless with the Clouds or after the Fox.

andybc said:

These are translations from the Etit Jeu Lenormand, which was printed in Belgium in 1890.

the main difference in Germany and France in the treatment of the Fox and Snake. In French meanings you tend to get a consistent negative view of the Snake, but in Germany and most Dutch meanings, the Snake is not always bad. Just a cold, aloof, intelligent woman unless with the Clouds or after the Fox.

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Thanks andybc! I appreciate the source reference.

andybc said:

Ronia also posted translations from a French source. If you got the CartaMundi deck with poems those are French, but the booklet is written by Erna Droesbeke von Enge who is Belgian Lenormand reader.

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Thanks, I found this and it is interesting but no sources are listed and that is my problem with most references to the "French tradition" and why I started this thread. I want to be able to back it up with more than someone's say so (no offence to anyone here).