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Girl Archer 
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Hierophant + Sun


What does the Hierophant + Sun combo mean? Wrt love readings and otherwise?
Both of them are "marriage cards". So, together I would think that they reinforce the idea that this couple would marry? Or if the couple were expecting a child, then it would be a boy?



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Old 05-05-2012 Limited time only: Chat live with a Tarot reader now and get 50% off!     Top   #1
Thirteen 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Girl Archer View Post
What does the Hierophant + Sun combo mean? Wrt love readings and otherwise?
Both of them are "marriage cards".
Um, no, the Sun isn't a marriage card (where did you read that?). The Sun is sometimes seen as a pregnancy card, or a prediction that a pregnant woman will have a boy or twins.

And I wouldn't say that this combo predicts marriage or even indicates love; it relates to elements outside of the relationship that would urge the couple to marry because it's tradition and it makes sense. Meaning that the couple is not following instincts, passion, their hearts, romance, or even a "soul-mate" connection. They're looking at the situation and saying, "We seem very well suited and happy with each other; we share the same traditions and moral values. Marriage is right."

The relationship is more of a social/moral/rational partnership.

Either that or pregnancy is making them feel they need to marry--again because the social traditions and morals they hold say as much.
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Old 05-05-2012 Limited time only: Chat live with a Tarot reader now and get 50% off!     Top   #2
nisaba 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Girl Archer View Post
What does the Hierophant + Sun combo mean? Wrt love readings and otherwise?
Both of them are "marriage cards". So, together I would think that they reinforce the idea that this couple would marry? Or if the couple were expecting a child, then it would be a boy?
Why marriage cards? People keep saying that to me. Tarot keeps not saying that to me.

The Hierophant indicates two things for a new relationship: that one or both people need to learn from previous failed relationships in order not to repeat the failure, and that the relationship will run best if it fits in with the cultural backgrounds and accumulated traditions of both people.

The Sun tells me that there is a lot of raw energy there, which can be both good and bad (the sun burns, the sun causes cancer, the sun causes plants to wither and die in summer). Also, that any skeletons in the closet that you don't want the other to know are very likely to come out anyway (so be the one to tell them!). Direct that energy the way you want - harness the force, don't let it drag you along.



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JadoreHauteCouture 
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Sun is the card suggesting we learn about ourselves through relationships... There are usually 2 mirrored children playing in the picture suggesting others are mirror to ourself. I would add to replies posted about that partners have to work out what they want individually so that they know what they actually want from their partner. Then they can work as a couple. These cards are about working out a relationship on a mental level, not emotional one so i also agree, its not that much about love. If you wanna look at them as marriage cards, its more like marriage cuz of convenience (or as already said pregnancy), not love.



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Girl Archer 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirteen View Post
Um, no, the Sun isn't a marriage card (where did you read that?). The Sun is sometimes seen as a pregnancy card, or a prediction that a pregnant woman will have a boy or twins.

=> Gosh, this IS embarrassing.. But I guess it is okay to admit that I learned this marriage card stuff via some youtube videos and a few sites which I don't remember now. This was right in the beginning, about four years back and it has kind of stuck on, since then.I see that I need to re examine a lot of things now, especially regarding what I know and don't know about the cards...

And I wouldn't say that this combo predicts marriage or even indicates love; it relates to elements outside of the relationship that would urge the couple to marry because it's tradition and it makes sense. Meaning that the couple is not following instincts, passion, their hearts, romance, or even a "soul-mate" connection. They're looking at the situation and saying, "We seem very well suited and happy with each other; we share the same traditions and moral values. Marriage is right."

The relationship is more of a social/moral/rational partnership.

=> Now I get it. It is more like, Marriages of convenience?

Either that or pregnancy is making them feel they need to marry--again because the social traditions and morals they hold say as much.
Thanks for your take, Thirteen
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Originally Posted by nisaba View Post
Why marriage cards? People keep saying that to me. Tarot keeps not saying that to me.

The Hierophant indicates two things for a new relationship: that one or both people need to learn from previous failed relationships in order not to repeat the failure, and that the relationship will run best if it fits in with the cultural backgrounds and accumulated traditions of both people.

The Sun tells me that there is a lot of raw energy there, which can be both good and bad (the sun burns, the sun causes cancer, the sun causes plants to wither and die in summer). Also, that any skeletons in the closet that you don't want the other to know are very likely to come out anyway (so be the one to tell them!). Direct that energy the way you want - harness the force, don't let it drag you along.
Thanks for your insight, Nisaba. Fascinating. I will keep this in mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JadoreHauteCouture View Post
Sun is the card suggesting we learn about ourselves through relationships... There are usually 2 mirrored children playing in the picture suggesting others are mirror to ourself. I would add to replies posted about that partners have to work out what they want individually so that they know what they actually want from their partner. Then they can work as a couple. These cards are about working out a relationship on a mental level, not emotional one so i also agree, its not that much about love. If you wanna look at them as marriage cards, its more like marriage cuz of convenience (or as already said pregnancy), not love.
Thanks JHC. That certainly makes sense.



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Quote:
Originally Posted by Girl Archer View Post
What does the Hierophant + Sun combo mean? Wrt love readings and otherwise?
Both of them are "marriage cards". So, together I would think that they reinforce the idea that this couple would marry? Or if the couple were expecting a child, then it would be a boy?
That is an interesting question and combination!

To me, The Hiero is about your upbringing, your moral values, your inner "programming", the values you were taught by your parents who learnt it from theirs who learnt it from their, what is expected of you, what society expects of you, peer pressure...all that kind of stuff. It can eitehr be about adhering to that or rebelling against it, ....depending.

The Sun is about all the good stuff that the real sun brings: warnth, good poitive warm feeligns, joy, optinism, healing, light, brightness...etc.

Together? Hmmm...It coiuld be about expressing warmth and positive feelings in the way you learnt to growing up kind of thing, of not expressing them in ways that are no socuallay acceptablle.

Eg someone may not believe in public shows of affection and only kiss his partner when they are alone. Os someone may have been brought up to be leive that it is only appropriate to express optimistic feelings and any hide any other feelings they haave from others and not wnat top talk about them.

The Sun has no connecttion to marraige for me. The Hierophant only menans marriage to me personallay when it is reversed. So If it did come up reversed iwth The Sun, yet that could have that meaning. It cuold be about a marriage and it wuold be a good, bright joyful , positive, feel good one.

Babs



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Girl Archer 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunChariot View Post
That is an interesting question and combination!

To me, The Hiero is about your upbringing, your moral values, your inner "programming", the values you were taught by your parents who learnt it from theirs who learnt it from their, what is expected of you, what society expects of you, peer pressure...all that kind of stuff. It can eitehr be about adhering to that or rebelling against it, ....depending.

The Sun is about all the good stuff that the real sun brings: warnth, good poitive warm feeligns, joy, optinism, healing, light, brightness...etc.

Together? Hmmm...It coiuld be about expressing warmth and positive feelings in the way you learnt to growing up kind of thing, of not expressing them in ways that are no socuallay acceptablle.

Eg someone may not believe in public shows of affection and only kiss his partner when they are alone. Os someone may have been brought up to be leive that it is only appropriate to express optimistic feelings and any hide any other feelings they haave from others and not wnat top talk about them.

The Sun has no connecttion to marraige for me. The Hierophant only menans marriage to me personallay when it is reversed. So If it did come up reversed iwth The Sun, yet that could have that meaning. It cuold be about a marriage and it wuold be a good, bright joyful , positive, feel good one.

Babs
Thanks, Babs. That too certainly makes sense. The person I had in mind is rather shut off in public but is a complete goofball around friends...



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Old 07-05-2012 Limited time only: Chat live with a Tarot reader now and get 50% off!     Top   #7
Zoltar 
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Marriage? Indeed!


I know this answer comes quite late but I only found this thread after searching for some insight into this combination for myself.

I certainly don't mean to contradict any replies who say that this combination does not mean 'marriage', but I'd like to explain why it can:

Firstly, tarot is a personal tool with universal imagery. The fundamental truth is that in any context, any card can mean anything to the subconscious of the reader. I have often given very accurate readings based on the imagery of the cards alone, which have given me information which have had little to do with the traditional meanings of the actual cards and their suites.

However, based on traditional meanings, Hierophant alludes to religious rite and doctrine which is acceptably indicitive of vows and orthodoxy. Traditional imagery can often even allude to same sex marriage (which is a paradox in itself considering the convention and 'antiquity' of its origins), but can also suggest vows of celibacy.

The Sun is largely about open secrets (most certainly when coupled with High Priestess and additionally Knight of Swords) and 'nothing to hide'. It is also assigned to 'good news' and 'happy endings'. The 'out in the openness' of this card mixed with The Hierophant presents a contradiction in nature because the one is staid and the other is free and wild.

Here are some phrases that explain my interpretation of marriage between the two:

Service and partying - ceremony and reception
Celebacy and nakedness - abstinence and honeymoon bed (nudity)
Tradition and revelation - waiting to be proposed to and the good news of receiving the proposal

etc. etc.

Crowley's Thoth suggests that the Sun can also mean sudden death in rare cases. Coupled with Hierophant reversed I would definitely consider divorce (especially with The Tower) or
funerals, (especially with Death).

Last edited by Zoltar; 14-09-2014 at 19:52. Reason: Spelling mistakes...yuck!
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PAMUYA 
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I can understand your reason for this post, what a combination. I have been giving this some thought. Hierophant and the Sun as a combination for a relationship.
My personal thought on these cards are:

Hierophant: when I see this card I see someone/thing that is ridged, tunnel vision, black or white, no grey area. There are rules and traditions to be followed. There is nothing wrong with this for there is much knowledge and truth there, but they may not be open to new insights. There is a warmth in tradition, it is familiar, a safe haven. You are traveling a well beaten path, the rules are there for you to follow. Man made rules/laws. It can mean marriage, but not necessarily love.

Sun: when I see this card I see the center of the universe, warmth radiates out, giver of life. All truths are seen in it's light. Although if in the suns light for too long you can get burned, all sun and no water leads to dehydration. It is ruled by the laws of nature.

With these two cards together I can see this acouple of ways:

There is a happiness between the couple, they get marred. (No pregnancy) but there are no deep emtional ties.

Since the sun is the giver of life I can see it being a pregnancy, with the Heirophant a forced marriage. No deep emotion ties, except the child.

The love of tradition can be strong and make a lasting relationship, but may lack the feelings of a romantic type of relationship. Tied by tradition.

This combination is hard for a relationship, as you can see I am struggling with it. I too would love to see more insights of others thoughts on this.

Last edited by PAMUYA; 15-09-2014 at 01:34.
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Old 15-09-2014 Limited time only: Chat live with a Tarot reader now and get 50% off!     Top   #9
Thirteen 
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Cool Who's arguing?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoltar View Post
I certainly don't mean to contradict any replies who say that this combination does not mean 'marriage', but I'd like to explain why it can
Oh, we all agreed that the combo could indicate marriage...our objections were to the assumptions that (1) it DID signal marriage for sure and (2) that it indicated a romantic sort of marriage over a rational/traditional or necessitated union. .
Quote:
Firstly, tarot is a personal tool with universal imagery. The fundamental truth is that in any context, any card can mean anything to the subconscious of the reader.
Yes? So? I mean, we all get strong messages from the cards and any one could scream, "MARRIAGE!" at us even though it doesn't traditionally mean that. But why ask here about what the cards mean if you're relying on your personal tools, imagery and subconscious?

All social discussions of the tarot have to revolve around certain, agreed on meanings and symbolism. Otherwise you're going to say, "To me the Hanged Man means romantic marriage," and I'm going to say, "um, ok," and that's the end of the conversation.
Quote:
However, based on traditional meanings, Hierophant alludes to religious rite and doctrine which is acceptably indicitive of vows and orthodoxy.
Yes. Which is why most of us agreed that it could indicate marriage for social, traditional or cultural reasons.
Quote:
Celebacy and nakedness - abstinence and honeymoon bed (nudity)
This argument fails to convince as the vast majority of modern couples have either gone all the way or are living together prior to marriage. It only works if the couple is from a very traditional family/culture. In which case we go right back to the fact that most of us agreed that the Hierophant could indicate that kind of marriage...no Sun need.

Ultimately, I think you're missing the fact that the argument over these cards wasn't about whether the Hierophant & Sun "could" signal marriage. Believe me, none of us require convincing that it's *possible* for these two to indicate marriage. The reason we questioned and disagreed with the interpretation was because the reader seemed to believe that the combo was unambiguously about marriage; as if any reader seeing the two in a relationship reading should should hear romantic church bells ringing in their head.

And you, yourself, have show that's not true. By your our interpretation, this could mean someone "seeing the light of god" (Sun) and becoming a celibate priest (with great celebration and happiness for his choice).

However, even if we were to agree that the combination absolutely meant marriage, it would do a disservice to the reader if we failed to inform them that this pair doesn't suggest a romantic, soulmate, fairytale marriage, but rather one steeped in tradition and (given the Sun) the rational mind rather than the romantic. Our contrary opinions were to help the reader see what was really in those two cards (marriage or otherwise), rather than what they might have strongly wanted to see in them.
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