2/wands I don't like you!

[Thirteen]

Originally Posted by Hlb9525

I don't think that it necessarily has to be a suicidal type of death, just that you had to choose a path that would lead to death in general.

I could be wrong, but I suspect the card position of "death" means "This is what led to your death"--in this case, 2/Wands, a decision or choice that they made in that past life. That doesn't necessarily mean they chose to die, simply that whatever they chose *led* to their death.

Whichever it is, however, if it makes the person angry and annoyed to see it, then I think they must believe, at a gut level, that it was a wrong choice--either that they would not have died if they hadn't made it, or that choosing death was a waste, not a noble and worthwhile sacrifice.

[WalesWoman]

Originally Posted by Thirteen

I could be wrong, but I suspect the card position of "death" means "This is what led to your death"--in this case, 2/Wands, a decision or choice that they made in that past life. That doesn't necessarily mean they chose to die, simply that whatever they chose *led* to their death.

Whichever it is, however, if it makes the person angry and annoyed to see it, then I think they must believe, at a gut level, that it was a wrong choice--either that they would not have died if they hadn't made it, or that choosing death was a waste, not a noble and worthwhile sacrifice.

Teach me to speed read through a post... I totally missed the part about this card showing up in the "what led to Death" position and that aversion you already had to this card. So I'll amend what I said earlier about 2 Wands to include, that something that drove you, something you wanted more than something else, some choice you made in a past life put you on a path to death. Sometimes this card is shown as a doorway, an entrance... some doors should stay closed, not all are good opportunities. This one suggests that you followed your passions rather than common sense maybe... sex is most often associated with wands... so got passionate with the wrong person or perhaps they were attached to someone else???

It could even be something more symbolic, a burning cross and the bad things that seem to go with burning crosses. If that is the case it could be just being born the wrong color, wrong faith, wrong associations... being in the wrong place at the wrong time... especially if it's about polarities and opposites and people acting in the heat of passion rather than reason.

Then again that cross analogy sounds like self sacrifice, so it may have been you had to make an awful choice to spare someone else... but because you felt passionately about it, chose to put your life at risk... much like a soldier or even more so member of a cause that believes it is important enough to give their life for... whether it is true or not. We have seen plenty of this in the past 20 years or more, Tibetan monks dousing themselves in gasoline, self immolation to protest China's occupation, jihadists strapping bombs to themselves and exploding where it will take out the most people and do the most damage for a promise of eternal paradise. Another more poignant one would be sacrifice of self to save another, acting as a decoy so others stay hidden or gain safe passage.

Or even more literal, say you ran out of cigarettes in the middle of the night... decided to just suffer until morning and pick up some on your way to work, instead of going to the convenience store a few blocks away... would not have been there when it was held up by someone all wired on meth or something and gotten shot. Something like that. You just never know sometimes how simple decisions can be life and death ones.

[nh786]

Originally Posted by Thirteen

Heh. Isn't that a little weird on your end? I mean, it's not like the characters in the cards know you're there and that they ought to be looking at you Thing is, you're viewing this as someone doing this deliberately to hurt you, that they aren't being empathetic to your situation. But if you look at the card meaning, you'll realize that they don't necessarily *want* to turn their backs to you--but they're in the middle of something really important and kinda have to.

Hmm that sounds much better than my 'cold' view

Putting it another way, if the man in that card did know you were there, looking at him, he might say: "I beg your pardon for turning my back on you, but my ships are due in today, and I'm anxiously waiting to see if they come in. I invested everything I had in them--all my energy and time--and if a storm or pirates got them, I'll have lost it all. So, please don't take it as rudeness that I'm staring out at the sea rather than at you. This is the most important day of my life, and I can't bare to look away until I see them on the horizon and know they're safe and sound...."

Lol that was a good way to explain it!

Or, similarly, "...my ships are sailing out today, and I can't bare to look away until I see them vanish over the horizon. They're carrying all my hopes and ambitions for the future."

I'm sure you've been in that position, not being able to look away from whatever is leaving with your hopes and ambitions, or not able to look away as you wait for something which could change your life to appear. So, yes, you may need this person, and yes, they may *seem* to be turning their backs on you (or are just too distracted to see you?)--but I think they've got a really, really good excuse for it, don't you? Are your issues so large, your immediate need for them so urgent that you can't understand why they're unable give you any of their time or energy at this very moment?

This has really helped you know, first i thought they are 'ignoring' you but now i understand it doesn't really 'change' anything its just that they are busy with something very important
Thanks so much for that.. I won't be feeling 'weird' anymore.. You learn something new every day!

[Cenozoic]

Originally Posted by Milfoil

I wonder if this could indicate a suicide?

Luckily no *phew* I don't feel very suicidal, and not interested in suicide that much. I think I'm too much of a coward lol

[Cenozoic]

Originally Posted by Le Fanu

Funny you should pick this card too out of all cards! I think the problem is that most decks never really make a very clear distinction between the 2 and 3 of Wands so it has ended up being quite a wishy-washy card.

Well it's strange because even when I didn't know the meanings, I just looked at the 2/wands and felt like, grrrr!

And yea, learning all the cards meanings can be quite a fickle! And getting the right feel for the card is a challenge too. I guess I don't have beef with the 3/wands. I do feel like the 2/wands and Strength card are in co-hoots with each other though. They have the same bad feeling for me, but I guess it's just hinting something I have to work on in this lifetime.

[Thirteen]

Originally Posted by WalesWoman

Teach me to speed read through a post... I totally missed the part about this card showing up in the "what led to Death" position and that aversion you already had to this card. So I'll amend what I said earlier about 2 Wands to include, that something that drove you, something you wanted more than something else, some choice you made in a past life put you on a path to death. Sometimes this card is shown as a doorway, an entrance... some doors should stay closed, not all are good opportunities. This one suggests that you followed your passions rather than common sense maybe...

Oh, excellent point! Yes, wands are all about speed, spur of the moment passions, even impatience and poor judgement--very much the opposite of the patient (overly patient?) Pents and their common sense view of how to make decisions. Wands are the "I want it now! Give it to me!" suit

And that's exactly the suit that can lead to glorious victories or horrific mistakes. And the 2/Wands is certainly one of those decisions made on the fly or impatiently or out of passion rather than thinking about it, or using your common sense or even seeing how you really feel about it. And now you're stuck with the results.

Spot on. Great point. I can see why that would make someone uncomfortable with this card. It's like "Why did I jump out of that airplane without checking over my parachute...?"

[Thirteen]

Originally Posted by nh786

This has really helped you know, first i thought they are 'ignoring' you but now i understand it doesn't really 'change' anything its just that they are busy with something very important
Thanks so much for that.. I won't be feeling 'weird' anymore.. You learn something new every day!

Very glad to have helped! And your right about learning something new every day. I've been doing tarot for I don't know how long now and I still learn something new every time I come here

[Cenozoic]

Originally Posted by The Divine Ms T

I don't care much for the feel of the card myself but I do think it serves a good purpose and belongs in the deck.

The two of wands has an isolated and unhappy feel to it. The man stands alone, overlooking his dominion, holding a globe in his hand (a symbol that represents his accomplishments) but he stands alone.

Waite compared this figure to Alexander the Great, who wept after conquering the known world. What will he do with himself now?

Perhaps this is the consequence of ambition, the cost of being an overachiever.

This really speaks to me, because whenever I do achieve anything, I don't feel satisfied. It just feels so lonely. When I'm in the process of doing something I'm thinking that it'll make me very happy to get it done, only to realize once I'm finished, I'm just blankly standing there wondering "now what?"

Like aww... I have nothing to do now. I'm finished!

[Thirteen]

Originally Posted by Cenozoic

but I guess it's just hinting something I have to work on in this lifetime.

Recommendation: have you tried Konnrad's Past Life Spread? The reason this might be a good spread for this is that you can set out the 2/Wands and ask: "Exactly what happened in this past life, the one where this led to my death, and how is it affecting my present life?"

The spread uses only the majors and the Aces, and so won't be affected by the removal of that minor card. Also, as the 2/Wands won't come up in the spread, you may get a clearer idea of what happened, rather than having a hard time with it because of your negative feelings towards it. And you'll know how what happened is currently affecting you, and why you have such feelings towards it. Maybe?

You can find links to this spread in the Tarot Spreads index here: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=31867

[PAMUYA]

Perhaps this card sturs up deeply covered feelings of decision(s) you have made in the past that you regret. "If I had only taken this route in my life".... this is what I thought when I read your post. Hide sight carries wisdom that we did not have at the time of decision.

Just a thought