The William Blake Triumph's--"Innocence"

I am finally getting in to studying the William Blake Tarot of the Creative Imagination---I am hoping that others will be interested too and share their thoughts with me.

The "Innocence" card features Blake's eternal figure called "Tharmas" and is the beginning of the segment of "The Fall" in the cycle of "Matter" (according to Blake's system)

According to Ed Buryn " Innocence" corresponds to the "Fool" in conventional Tarot. It represents the soul's entry into terrestrial consciousness, following its descent from eternity. "

The distant city towers---"symbolize that he (she) is yet unaffected by society."

The innocent soul is naked----"an unadorned spiritual essence at the literal dawn of its journey through the stages of life and the cards of the Triumphs"

"Awed by the challenges, the soul hesitates on the white Rock of Ages"

Leaping dog----"senses that the crocodile, half dragon, and half serpent, embodies both magical and mystical knowledge. Although dangerous, the only way to encounter him is to leap into his element, crossing the threshold from potentiality to actuality."

Tharmas-----"the naked figure is Tharmas, the western Zoa of Matter, appearing in the world of Generation as eternity's fool. Tharmas is the "parent power" , the generative Zoa in the Cycle of Matter. He presides over the art of Painting because it studies and depicts the forms of matter. His element is Water, the first element mentioned in the Bible, associated by Blake with the material world and the human body because both are mostly composed of water."

All above quotes are from Ed Buryn's book and he goes on to say"In the card, Tharmas is shown reacting to the beauty and terror of material existence in Blake's metaphor of the "sea of time and space", but elementally Tharmas is the sea, the material man in his own element. Traditional occult wisdom holds that matter is the manifestation of spirit which is literalized in this card."

So what are your thoughts on this card?

Tharmas looks terrified to me, recoiling with his hands in the air---very different from the standard Rider-Waite Fool. Tharmas is reluctant to leap and who wouldn't be with that crocodile's jaws waiting.

Ruby7

Note to moderators---oops--meant to put this thread under Study Groups---General---please move to appropriate place---Thanks

Well I guess a reply to your post has been way too long in coming Ruby! I would have been here sooner but only got the deck yesterday.

A curious deck. I actually like many of William Blake's views (although I have only been reading about him since yesterday). I have read his poetry before,of course, but knew nothing about his art.

Firstly, I started to go through the deck, card by card, reading the meanings and background behind the artwork, written by Ed Buryn. That will take me a while, so the only thing for it is to delve in the deep end and see what inspiration comes about! I hope some!

The sense I get with this card is not just innocence, but at the last moment, shock and surprise. As though, reality (and danger) suddenly hits. But to see the other side of the coin for a moment. The crocodile is laying in wait... this could throw in the air, another meaning for the card, one of patience.

It strikes me as odd also, that the dog is way ahead of Innocence... when do dogs do that? They follow, close on the heal... unless... they are protecting. Yet another meaning.

The sun is disappearing below the sea and in a few moments the trauma will be over....

This card reminds me of the phrase: "For fools rush in where angels fear to tread. (Alexander Pope)". The dog boldly confronts the crocodile, symbolizing a "go for it!" attitude even in the face of challenges.

The hesitant man on the cliff appears to be terrified, not wanting to test the unknown waters. The dog demonstrates the leap of faith required to confront the challenges of life.

His nakedness may represent purity, naivete, inexperience. The rising sun dawning on the horizon symbolizes a new phase of light and life, encouraging a new outlook and new experiences. The word innocence is derived from the Latin "in-" (negative) and "nocens" (to harm), or "no harm". To leap into life without fear of harm.

There is clearly an Egyptian theme in the Fool and Magic cards in the Blake Tarot. Trying to piece together the conflicting ideas that this card brings forth has taken me some time and makes this Tarot's introduction to the 'dual' nature of the World both confusing, maddening! and appropriate.

Buryn mentions the constellation relationship between the Fool (Orion), the dog (Sirius - which is present in the next card) and the serpent/crocodile (Typhon). He only refers to the Greek mythology, however, that seems to overlook a key theme - Egyptian symbolism. From a purely astronomical point of view, the crocodile/serpent could be Draco, the constellation that contained the Pole Star, Thuban, in Egyptian times - a star that lines up with a shaft in the Great Pyramid. The other shaft points to Orion's belt or Osiris.

Orion is Osiris and Sirius is Sothis or Isis in Egyptian mythology. The crocodile was said to have helped Isis gather the parts of Osiris torn by his enemy, Set into the Nile. The crocodile, or Sobek/Sebek, is a dual character in that he is also considered an accomplice of Set. Sebek is also considered the originator of the Nile and the greenbelt that sustained Egyptian society. I think that dualism is interesting.

From http://www.touregypt.net/Osiriscu.htm :

Sebek, thought to be among the patrons of the Thirteenth Dynasty, was a crocodile god. Sebek was said to have crawled out of the primordial waters on the day of creation. He was especially worshiped in the Fayyum; however, due to his associations with Set, the crocodile -- symbol for Sebek -- was mercilessly hunted down and killed in other places in Egypt. It was told in some versions of the Osiris myth that Set had hidden in the body of a crocodile to escape punishment for his crime.

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The Fool card is 0, but, as Rachel Pollack mentions it can also be 22 - the number of the Emperor. Sebek was also considered a guardian of the Pharaoh and that he represented the Pharaoh's strength."The word ’sovereign’ was written with the hieroglyph of a crocodile this way the crocodile or Sobek would be linked to the Pharaoh, the sovereign of Egypt. It was believed that Sobek could protect the Pharaoh from dark magic. During the Twelfth and Thirteenth Dynasties, the cult of Sobek was given particular prominence and a number of rulers incorporated him in their coronation names." (http://www.egypthasitall.com/blog/category/cairo/)

This next quote made me think of the Innocence card:

Various writers and travelers of the ancient world, including Plutarch, Pliny and Aelianus, observed the daily habits of the crocodile, reporting that it settled itself on an east-facing sandbank "with idle feet" when the sun rose, with wide-open "fearsome jaws". In the afternoon, it turned westward, and in the evening entered the water.

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Tharmas is the western Zoa of Matter, so the open jaw facing east is not quite in line with the card, but Tharmas' element is water. Interesting nonetheless.

Both the Egyptian Tarot and Barrett's Ancient Egyptian Tarot use Ra and the crocodile in the Fool cards. The presence of the crocodile is menacing in these like Blake's, but they are connected to Egyptian creation mythology.
From a more shamanic point of the view, the Fool is the apprentice approaching the waters of the Underworld with his dog (Anubis) as his guide.

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Back in Blake's world, the dual world is a shock to the Innocent with all of its dangers and beauty. Tharmas' fall is painful. He declares himself god and destoys Los only to reunite him and order him to rebuild the universe. The city in the card background could be Los' city of Golgonooza - it's gate is Luban, built by Tharmas, the entry into this World - the vagina. One interesting thing is that in the "Four Zoas", Tharmas himself is called the "Demon of the Waters", his dual image? The dog predicts the ruin of innocence.

My original feelings for this card were limited. But, now, I am inclined to see the sun as a sunset, a descent. The journey of discovery is about to begin and nobody said it would be easy! But it will be an adventure...