5 Of Sword - Swastikas?

[Kaiju]

I'm pretty new to the Thoth deck and just the other night I was doing a reading for a friend, when the five of swords dropped. As I was scrutinizing it's imagery, I couldn't help but notice that there were two shapes flanking the five swords. To me they looked like swastikas.

I realize that swastikas actually have nothing in common with genocide or fascism and I'm pretty sure that Crowley knew this as well as the swastika has been traced back through history right up to the Sumerians, often times being a symbol of good luck, the cycle of life, the four elements, etc.

Am I just misinterpreting these shapes or is this what I'm seeing and they have some signifigance to the card?

[Cassiopeia]

hi kaiju,

just been looking at my five of swords, and spotted the swastika like smybols on this card. I hadnt noticed these before. The swords on this card form the shape of an upside down pentagram, and the pentagram would have the same meaning as the swastika...cycle of life, the four elements, protection, etc.

The upsidedown pentagram seems to mean different things to different people. To me, it means a regognition of the importance of darkness as well as light. I tend to read this card as necesery but painful struggle...this is the darkness we must go through to appreciate the light. So, the symbology for me would add to that meaning of a kind of "necesary passage" The positive side of the card for me is the potential for growth and wisdom it brings, if we can get through the struggle.

Just noticed right at the top of this card, under the number 5, is the symbol for women, anyone have any ideas on how this symbol impacts on the cards meaning?

[Alobar]

that is also the symbol for Venus... appropriate since this card is Venus in Aquarius.

[Nevada]

I've noticed this before, and it always brought to mind the idea of thoughts folding in upon themselves and becoming self-defeating. Compare with the Six of Swords (Science), where similar shapes are more like crosses with sort of wing shapes. I always see this as thoughts taking wing, or flying successfully.

Nevada34

[yinpox]

In the 3rd knowlege lecture of the golden dawn a diagram of 17 squares aranged in the shape of a swastika labeled as the "fylfot cross" and described as "the 17 squares out of a square of lesser squares, refer to the sun in the twelve signs of the zodiac and the four elements" Crowley would most likely been givin this lecture sometime around 1899(long before WWII). What that means as far as why it is used in the 5 of swords? I am not sure.

[Phoenyx*]

Here's the quote from the Book of Thoth:

Geburah as always produces disruption; but as Venus here rules Aquarius, weakness, rather than excess of strength seems to be the cause of disaster. The intellect has been enfeebled by sentiment. The defeat is due to pacifism. Treachery also may be implied.
The hilts of the swords form an inverted pentagram, always a symbol of somewhat sinister tendency. Here, matters are even worse; none of the hilts resemble any of the others, and their blades are crooked or broken. They give the impression of drooping, only the lowest of the swords points upwards, and this is the least effective of the weapons. The rose of the previous card has been altogether disentigrated.

Crowley then goes on to show historical references to this type of energy, where the ideal has been corrupted by sentiment and thus weakened, which brought about its downfall, such as the Dionysian rites, Rome from its inception to its fall.

~T~

[Macavity]

DuQuette (Understanding the... Thoth Tarot) speculates that, since Frieda Harris painted this card at the height of the second world war, there is a possible connection. He also notes that e.g. some of these folk were engaged in trying to defeat the Nazis by more magickal means...

Macavity

[Lemurian]

Some people says that Crowley used this deck to win a war against the nazis. If you notice he put the Swastika in the card of defeat, defeat due to weakness, only thinking and no real action in the material world, the complete surrendering to mind and no work with the body.

In fact this card is a really bad symbol and using it as a weapon (no idea, how to) might be just as devastating as what it represents.

It just makes me trust even more in all the hidden properties this deck has, together with the possiblities it offers, and how comfortable I feel working with it.

[closrapexa]

The Swastica, sign of rebirth, regeneration and the renewal of the seasons. I honestly don't know if they have anything to do with Nazi Germany on this card, but I doubt it. Crowley was trying to make a universal deck, one that would renew all the occult symbolism that, as he said it "were understood imperfectly" by other (meaning that he understood it perfectly, was perfect, etc). Perhaps he wanted to bring back the beauty of this symbol that was perverted by hate and evil. Get to the source, as it were. While I don't know much about his life, he was not known as a particularly political person, and to my mind, bringing his creation to the "mundane" would be a travesty.

I hope you get my point, since I haven't explained this as well as I would like...

[spiral]

Originally Posted by closrapexa

While I don't know much about his life, he was not known as a particularly political person,

Well that's not true. Crowley wielded a not-insignificant amount of political pressure in the run up to World War I and contributed to persuading the US to enter the war on the side of Britain. Indeed he was not a politician - but he was certainly very interested and moved by political events and played, at the very least, a cameo role. There are perhaps other significant events that the more Crowley-bio-informed amongst you can relate.

Originally Posted by closrapexa

and to my mind, bringing his creation to the "mundane" would be a travesty

Why's that? And who or what is/are the "mundane"? Do you mean reference to a commonly understood symbol in his deck? Or do you mean the bringing of magick to the masses?

Anyway, to answer the original point - I don't think that it is a reference to Nazi Germany. If you notice, both forms of the svastika appear: the auspicious version (spinning clockwise and signifying Ganesh) and the inauspicious version, as used by the Nazis (spinning anti-clockwise and signifying Kali). These are yet another glyph of polarity and balance, seperated by the inverted pentagram: the "triumph of matter over spirit". To me this suggests that inertia, or the path of least resistance, is the force dictating things when pro-action and war is necessary. It is an attempt to placate the murderous intruder with tea and cake.