Death in a chart and more on Ron Arad

M-Press

Hi!
I haven't been very present in AT lately, due to work, and the same will continue till New Year's...
Nevertheless, I'm popping here and there, to keep up with Martha Stewart!

There is someone's chart, that has been intersting me for a while now, but since it's "hot" again, I find myself questioning during the day, so...

The person is called Ron Arad, and he's an Israeli air-force navigator, that was captured by members of the Amal Shi?ite militia in 1986.

He's still missing- for the last 17 years...!!!! -not definitely dead though.
A total mystery, he's a big "issue" in the Israeli life. Here and there it "wakes up" again, with some proof or gossip, that he's alive, captured and hidden somewhere...

i don't know his time of birth, but his birthday is on:
May 5, 1958,Israel
http://www.mia.org.il/ron.html

what this case makes me think of/question, are the following:
1) is it possible to see death in a chart?
could we solve the mystery?
2) what does a chart of someone so spoken and cared about, a true hero, that is totally hidden from the world, and separated from his environment, looks like?
would that be a classic "sun in the 12th house"? what else shows this drama/tragedy?

if anyone would like to look into this...
I can try and find more "facts"
i don't know why, but personally i'm very intriguided by it. In a way I do not believe this can happen...
 

Minderwiz

Some intriguing questions M-Press!

Traditional Astrolgoers claimed that they could calculate life span and identify the point of death. However changes in medical science and the chances of 'accidental death' lead me to treat this with some suspicion in terms of its usefulness.

I know that some modern Astrologers do point to chart symbolism that can indicate death as a likely - but these tend to be done after the event or in circumstances where death is a real possibility - for example before major surgery or on the diagnosis of a life threatening disease. In these circumstances their predicitions may well be accurate.

Possible ways forward are to:

Do a horary on the question is Ron Arad dead?

Do an event chart for the moment of his disappearance - as accurately as we can time it.

Look at the transits and progressions to his chart around the time of his disappearance - again an accurate time and place of birth would be nescessary.

If you can find more out then let us know.
 

M-Press

Thank You!

I also felt that we needed more info, such as time of birth, and besides contacting the family, I don't see how else we can find it...
I don't know if I feel comfortable doing that...But I'm also wondering if anyone else (maybe even the family itself), even inquired about that in "our" ways of looking, including a tarot reading...

Sorry-what is a horary?

I will let this perculate a little...maybe I can meditate on it myself, to see how it affects me personally, as I don't know him personally, and then see how to go about finding his time of birth...
I also think that I 'm looking for more than a yes or no answer...
I'm trying to understand this, and I would like to see how it can be explained astrologically...

Anyway, I'm sure I'll be back with this...between my newly working chores!!
 

Minderwiz

M-Press,

Horary is a traditional technique of answering questions using Astrology - the Astrological equivalent of a Tarot reading.

The question can be anything at all - in this case the question would surround the death of survival of Ron Abard. As in Tarot the question is asked by a querent (which of course could be the same person as the reader) and is concerned with the quesited - the subject matter of the question.

A chart is cast for the moment that the reader (the Astrologer) understood the question and is set for the reader's location.

The querent is signified by the ruler of the Ascendant and the questited by the ruler of the relevant house - in this case as the quesited is another person his significator would be the ruler of the seventh.

The house position of the significators, their condition and relationships all contribute to the chart reading.

The good thing about horary is that it works when there is insufficient data for an accurate natal or event chart.
 

lunalafey

This is a subject that I'm close to.
I have two charts that I stare at.....
one is a birthday........the other is the day of dissapearance......
only reciently it was confirmed that this was also time of death.

how great of an influence does the ASC have, for I have no time of birth(like you-lol), or even exact time of death (at this moment- though I feel my guess of the exact time is d*** close)
without that info....where's the next place to look?

what about a progressed chart- the day=year chart
 

Minderwiz

We have to be very cautious here - i certainly don't have the skill to be exact or anywhere near it.

So the following are simply possibles:

Firstly Progressions and Transits may well give some indicators through symbolism - Death is commonly attributed to the eighth House, so hard aspects to the ruler of the eighth may have symbolism - though we need to ask why this particular transit or progression, as there will have been some hard aspects before - so you are probably looking for not one but several indicators.

There is a tradition that the Ascendant shows our entry into this world and the cusp of the seventh shows our exit from it. So again planets in the seventh and the ruler of the seventh may play a symbolic role.

Lee Lehman refers to a relationship between Jupiter and the event of death - even though Jupiter is usually seen as benefic. Jupiter symbolises expansion and growth and for somethings this is very bad - cancers and bleeding are but two examples.

The condition of planets by essential and accidental dignity will also be important but again there must be some reason for linking these to death - possibly by using an event chart for a life threatening event - such as an operation, or an event that carries some risk where death may be an outcome - the flight time of an aircraft that crashed for example.

Lee Lehman also refers to a system of predictions called profections - although she does not use a pure classical approach for several reasons relating to its complexity and the nature of the house system employed - she does use a variation relating to moving the Ascendant for one House for each year. Thus I am now in my 57th year so my profected first House is my natal tenth. The chart could be read for the year using the MC as though it were the new Ascendant. This seems a little rough and ready but from the examples she gives it does seem to have real use.
 

M-Press

Thanks for all this...
I actually never heard of a horary before, and i'm not sure I got it completely, but will try to experiment...

just for the record, (i know this is out of this discussion) , I drew 3 cards regarding the captured navigator, and I got, Ace of Swords, Ace of pentacles, and The Fool...
Interesting, ah?
That doesn's sound very dead...

Anyway...
I'll do more probing... i want to look at your suggestions more closely, Minderwiz...There is A LOT there...

I'm in NY now, so I'll try to see if there is any new book on the subject, in one of these New Age stores!...after I finish painting 900 frames, that is!!!!
 

Minderwiz

Horary has quite complex rules of procedures based on a traditional approach to Astrology. Indeed it may predate natal Astrology and certainly up to the seventeenth century or so it was used more that natal Astrology. That was mainly because many people had little or no idea of the time of their birth and many could not even by accurate to the day. However an Astrologer knew the time that he (and in those days it was almost exclusively male dominated) understood the question asked.

The horary chart therefore has an accurate time, where a natal chart may not do. If you want me to have a go at a horary through this thread in order to see what condition Ron Abard is in I'll gladly try it - though I don't promise anything definite from it.
 

M-Press

Thanks M for offering!
Yes, that would be great, because then we'll also see what that means...the horary...

here is his info again:
May 5, 1958 in Israel, Tel-Aviv
and well, he's been "away" for 17years...
the chart itself should be stunning (sadly...)!
 

Minderwiz

OK - I'll do a chart on the question:

Where is Ron Abard and is he alive or dead?

I'll try and report on the chart tomorrow.