Marseilles pips: the fives

[jmd]

One of the interesting aspects of the fives is that they seem to complete images which were begun in the previous card.

For example, the four of Staffs sometimes is shown with two flower stems cut vertically which, if joined and the flower heads removed, completes the image as a five of 'wands'.

Likewise, the four of Coins has a central motif which metamorphosises into a fifth Coin.

With the Swords, the central flower within the double vesica seems to straighten to become one of the straight swords piercing through the central curved swords.

Only the Cups seem to have clearly a Cup added - an addition proper of growth.

I'll make other minor comments later, but thought this may open discussions

Attached is a copy of the five of swords from the Schaffhouse (Tarot Classic) deck - not quite a Marseille, but one in which I enjoy the clarity of sword depiction...

[Moonbow]

This is great, I just bought a Marseilles deck yesterday. Its just the basic Marseilles Tarot reproduction, but thought if I liked it I could 'invest' in another. What you've said about the 4's and 5's is something I hadn't noticed, even though I've been staring at these cards since I bought them. Thats exactly what I like about the Marseilles. They look so 'simplified' at first but the more you look at them, the more you see in them. I'm so delighted with my buy.

[Moonbow]

Any more tips??

I lnow theres probably already a thread but when I put Marseilles in search I get loads!!

[Diana]

Moonbow: There are some threads right here in the History forum on reading minors.

Here are a few links to get you going.

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?threadid=12585

and the summary of the above link is here:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?threadid=12998

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?threadid=13220

If you explore this forum, you will probably find a few others. And also, please post as much as you like if you have questions, insights or illumunations.

[Diana]

Originally posted by jmd
One of the interesting aspects of the fives is that they seem to complete images which were begun in the previous card.

Actually, this occurs not only with fives, but with many other cards as well - it is very obvious with the Swords.

There is always a sense of growth with the Marseilles minors. As soon as you reach a new level with a happy sigh.... oopsydaisy, you realise that there is another mountain to cross. Some of them are easier than others. And to know which are easy and which are more difficult, it is advisable to look very closely at the "energy" of the card.

In the five of Cups for instance, the energy is beautifully enclosed within the central cup, and on either side are two open flowers (not buds - but full-grown flowers). There is a lot of love in this card and the vegetation on the top reaches for the sky - towards spirit, not matter.

But if you look at the six of Cups, then you'll see that this vegation changes radically. Out of the comfort zone, and again into some form of duality. Now it's not easy to get out of the comfort zone.... but sometimes one has no choice. Man has to evolve. But of course, the central flower on the six of Cups and the tremendous potential that one can see growing in the top and bottom buds bring good tidings and provide an incentive to move on.

(I'd like to add a picture, but I am very very stupid when it comes to anything technical and I'm having problems working with my scanner (sometimes I manage to make attachments, but it's more of a miracle than anything else when I do.)

[gloria]

These earlier threads are just what I need to unravel the mysteries of the Marseille deck, I shall print them out and take time to go through them.
My concern though, is that the decks have varying pictures. The deck I have pictured here is from a 1998 book, which differs from thread deck. For instance, no red band at base of 2/Cups, flowers and buds differing etc.
It would obviously be better for me to buy the Marseille deck, but which one? Could you please advise?
(Is the Hadar deck available yet?)

Gloria.

[Moonbow]

Hi everyone,

I'm really trying to understand my Marseilles deck.

Diana thanks for the threads about the 2's and 3's. I've printed them off. My problem is: I bought my Carta Mundi deck with reproductions from Jean Dodal, looked and looked at them till I felt I had to delve in and try a spread. So I mixed them all up - shuffled - reversed etc.. Now, I dont know which way some of the pips go. What I mean is which way is up and which way is reversed?? With some its obvious but does anyone know of a site showing pics of all the pips for me to print off??

[jmd]

In response to your question, Moonbow*, which is one which pops up repeatedly and has, in many ways, varied repercussions, I have started a new thread called How to tell the uprightness of Marseille pips.

[gloria]

My concern though, is that the decks have varying pictures. The deck I have pictured here is the Carta Mundi Turnhout, which differs from thread deck. For instance, no red band at base of 2/Cups, flowers and buds differing etc.
It would obviously be better for me to buy the Marseille deck, but which one? Could you please advise?
(Is the Hadar deck available yet?)

Please can you help me out here JMD?
G.

[spoonbender]

hey gloria,
I bought my first Marseille deck a few weeks ago after searching the forums and asking Diana in a PM--so this is, in short, what I found out:

The Grimaud deck seems to be the one most books are based on, the more standard kind of Marseille deck: here's a link. The Conver is a close reproduction and naturally has an ancient and old feeling to it: here's a link. And if you like the Conver, this site might be helpful too. I don't really know what to think of the Camoin: some people really seem to like it, but there seem to be a lot of odd additions (link).

I eventually chose the Hadar and I'm *very* happy with it! The images and colours are just beautiful, they really speak to me! This thread was very helpful for me, because Kaz gives a few images of the Hadar (thanks Kaz!). I bought the Hadar on the Fnac-site and got it about two weeks later...

If you haven't already, take a look at this page by Jmd, it's really helpful: http://www.aeclectic.net/marseilles/review.html.
*edited: just realised that this link doesn't seem to work, you can find it by clicking "Tarot of Marseilles"*

Hope this has helped,
Spoonbender