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New Sitter - LeiifA


LeiifA has kindly volunteered to be my next sitter. In this first post I'll just give the chart and basic positions before moving on th look at it in more depth over the next few posts.

The chart is a night chart, with the Sun in the fourth place and the Moon, having risen, in the eleventh Place. Both Lights are well placed with the Sun in an angle or pivot and the Moon in a succedent house, the house of the Good Spirit' Both lights, but most importantly the Moon as the Sect Light, aspect the Ascendant.

The Ascendant is in Aquarius so the Domicile Ruler of the hour marker is Saturn, who also happens to be the out of sect malefic. itself placed in the twelfth place, withing 10 minutes of arc of changing Signs. Saturn is in it's own Domicile (Capricorn) but in a direct degree based partile opposition to Mars, the malefic of sect. This opposition is likely to be one of the main features of the chart, and one of the main focii of the analysis. Saturn will be less malefic because it's in it's own sign but then that is offset by the opposition from Mars (which is in its own Fall or Depression). Saturn rules the Twelfth House as well as the Hour Marker.

Looking at the other planets in terms of Sect:

The Moon is in the eleventh place of the Good Spirit, where it has associations with friends and sponsors. It's in Sagittarius but in the Confines or Bounds of Mars. This again signifies that Mars will be an important planet. The Moon is in Sagittarius and is ruled by Jupiter, the out of sect benefic, which is also its principle Triplicity or Trigon Ruler, the other being the Sun, with Saturn as a co-operating Ruler. The Moon is in a sign based Trine to Venus the Benefic of Sect, though Venus is out of the Moon's 13 degree orb. The Moon is also in a Sign based Sextile with Jupiter in the first Place. The Moon rules the sixth Place.

Venus is the Benefic of Sect, being placed in Aries, in the third Place. Aries is the Sign of Venus' Detriment or Alienation. The third is a Cadent or Declining Place but is not one of the idle places, so it's not a bad placement. Venus makes a separating sextile to Jupiter and wide sign based squares to Mars and to Saturn. Venus rules the Fourth Place and the Ninth Place

Mars is in the sixth Place, and the sign of Cancer. The sixth is the Joy of Mars, but Mars is in its Detriment in Cancer. Luckily Mars is not configured to the Ascendant but, as stated previously is in a partile opposition to Saturn and a square to Venus Mars also sextiles by sign the Sun and Mercury, which rules to Lot of Fortune. Mars rules the Third Place and the Tenth Place.

Mercury rose after the Sun and technically that makes it a nocturnal planet, though with a separation of 3 degrees ahead of the Sun, it is under the Beams. It is in the fourth Place and makes the same aspects as does the Sun, a sextile to Mars, a Trine to Saturn and a Square to Jupiter. Placed in the fourth Mercury is an angular planet. Mercury rules the fifth Place and the eighth place

The Diurnal Planets are:

Sun in the fourth Place of Taurus and angular - aspects as for Mercury The Sun rules the seventh Place

Jupiter in the first place and also angular with squares to Sun and Mercury. At its degree, Jupiter has no essential dignity though being angular it is well placed in the chart and is not threatened by a malefic. Jupiter rules the Eleventh Place and the second Place.

The Lot of Fortune is in the fifth Place and is ruled by Mercury. The Lot aspects the Ascendant by Trine but is not configured to the Ascendant Ruler. Venus (Sextile), Jupiter (Trine) and Moon (Opposition) are configured to it. As LeiifA has a feeling that the birth time is not accurate, it's worth pointing out that a birth nine minutes later will shift the Lot into Cancer and I'll consider that in more detail when I look at Zodiacal Releasing.

The Lot of Spirit is in Virgo in the eighth place and is also ruled be Mercury. The Lot is squared by the Moon and trined by the Saturn, Sun and Mercury. Unlike Fortune it is not configured to the Ascendant but it is configured to its ruler and to the ruler of the Ascendant and the Sect Light.

In my next post, I'll look at the Domicile Ruler of the Ascendant in more detail and I'll cover Schmidt's nautical metaphor at the end of the topical analysis before moving on the look at predictions.
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Domicile Lord of the Hour-Marker


This post will look at the Domicile Lord of the Hour Marker. or Ruler of the Ascendant, to give it a modern title. I shall be using some of Valens statements, here and one thing I’d like to assess, in conjunction with LeiifA, is how far they hold, if at all. as a descriptor of some personality traits and some of the focus in life.

Unlike Modern Astrology, Hellenistic Astrology does not lay down permanent, inherent qualities. Thus a ‘focus in life’ may be as others see the native, rather than he or she sees herself. That focus my not be permanent. It may be a one off, but something that is then identified with that person, no matter what they did before or after, or it may be a recurring but not permanent condition, or it may be something that is always there. That is Hellenistic Astrology allows the native to change. A Modern view might be that the native grows out of some characteristic of adopts some (up to then) new characteristic. However those statements would now be taken to imply growth or development, ideas which were not common in the ancient world. Those terms also would be probably taken to imply choice, the concept of being able to do anything we want. For the Hellenistic Astrologers that would not be the case. Some would allow an element of choice of free will but in a context of a world largely determined by fate.

So with those caveats, here goes.

The Hour Marker lies in Aquarius, ruled by Saturn. Valens says:

‘Those natives born under the sign of Aquarius can be a bit unruly and hateful of their kind. They are unchangeable and tend towards a one-track mind. They can, at times be delirious and deceitful, being crafty and tending to keep all things hidden. They can be misanthropic in nature, aesthetic and accusatory...Aquarians can be jealous and envious of those around them, which can lead to stingy and hair splitting behaviour. Whenever those natives tend to be generous, it is because of some “efflux” of the element of Water within them, which can mean that they are a bit unbridled and undisciplined in these cases. As a whole the constellation of the Water-Pourer is very wet, tending to bring down water.

The idea of Aquarius being unruly is something Moderns might identify with, given their association of Uranus with the sign but the unchangeable and one track mind would not follow. It’s worth remembering that Aquarius is a fixed sign, which does imply unchangeable and to the extent that the element of Air is associated with the mind (Mercury rules the Triplicity by Night) that would imply an unchangeable mind or a focus on one thing at a time.

Much of the other characteristics here are derived from Saturn, its ruler. The tendency to being generous when coupled with an efflux of Water, also has Saturn connotations. Saturn was associated with Water, sailing and ships. in the Hellenistic mind. Exactly what he means by efflux, I’m not sure. perhaps that will come out in the discussion.

Valens describes Saturn as:

Saturn makes those natives born under his influence have very little logic, causing them at times to be the type to count trifles, such as obsessing over tiny expenses. or to be focussed on the other minute details of life. These are the type of individuals to give others the evil eye, as they are envious of others and hold grudges. They are anxiety ridden, inclined to beat themselves down and solitary in nature. These natives tend towards a no-nonsense type of affectation. They can keep things hidden through the quality of being subtle and in this way can in some ways be deceitful. They can be harsh or crabby and in certain cases can be excessively rigorous, exacting and strict. In this way Saturn individuals can end up in high positions, nodding their assent and approval to those below them in rank.

Saturn types have the a quality of visual perception that focuses on the negative aspects of the world around them. They can also tend to be very dry. In general Saturn can bring about all kinds of expectations and large duties within big infrastructures and institutions, the duties of which can range from the holding of office, to having a government job of some kind. Saturn can also create the experience of being forced to do other people’s work.


Many of those statements may still be accepted as true by Astrologers. Saturn is, from a psychological perspective, associated with depression and anxiety. It’s also associated with fear and a lack of self confidence (unless there are other factors to take into account). Some of the characteristics, such as the reference to obsessing over trifles might now be seen as Virgoan in nature.

How much of these characteristics, Saturn is going to signify depends on the Sect of the Chart, which, in this case, is nocturnal. Saturn is the out of sect malefic and thus the most ‘dangerous’ planet in the chart. The one that will bring more ‘bad’ things than any other. In part that might be mitigated by Saturn being in its own domicile of Capricorn and in its own joy, so that too is something I’d like to explore.

Saturn is situated in the twefth Place, the Place of the Bad Spirit, though it also the place of Saturn’s Joy. Rhetorius links it to everything that happens before the native’s birth as this sign rose before the hour marker when mother and baby become separated. Antiochus associates it with force and necessity. Generally it is associated with enemies, loss or misfortune and slaves or servants. Valens links it to foreign countries (as for all declining places), enmities, slaves, injuries, dangers, trials, suffering, death and weakness.

Valens is quite bleak about the twelfth place:

'If the malefics happen to be in this place, they will cause great wounds and traumas, especially if they are in their proper face. If the Lot of Fortune is present in this Place and some [star] rules it, there will be no help, not even during transits. They have become enemies from the beginning, from the moment of birth. In the same, way benefics found in this Place will not bestow their benefits. Whenever these three stars fall in this sign (the rulers of the Ascendant, of the Lot, and of Daimon), they make men unfortunate and disgraced, those lacking their daily bread. Many will hold out their hands (for alms)'.

I take that last sentence to mean that all three planets need to be in the twelfth, for the native to become unfortunate and disgraced, and that is certainly not the case here.

However, the rest of his quote does not suggest anything good for the native. There are a number of ways of interpreting this but one could be that the native becomes his or her own worst enemy.

It could also signify problems that occur as the result of travel to foreign places, or at least far from home. such as diseases and injuries. These might occur as the result of the native’s own actions or the actions of his or her enemies but not necessarily so. The twelfth is associated with loss in general, again probably influenced by his or her own actions or the actions of enemies.

‘Enemies’ here does not have to be personal enemies, but could be injuries incurred whilst in military service. That latter possibility could be compounded by the Mars/Saturn opposition, linking the two houses associated with injury and disease and the two malefics. Mars in a night chart is less malefic and may even prove helpful in some situations. It too is situated in it’s own Joy of the sixth house.

As the out of sect malefic it’s more likely that Saturn will damage Mars, than the other way round. Mars rules the third place of Brothers (and certain religious matters, as the third is the House of the Goddess). Mars also rules the tenth Place of career and status, so I’m interested whether any effects have been felt in that area of life.

Saturn also overcomes, through a ‘tenth house’ relationship the Sun and Mercury in Taurus. Sun and Mercury have significance for children and for relationships and again those are areas that might be relevant to further discussion.

If this seems a bleak, forlorn picture, it’s worth pointing out that George W Bush and Barack Obama both have this placement for the rule or the hour marker, and in the case of Barack Obama, the hour marker is in Aquarius and Saturn is in Capricorn, though in a day chart in his case, He shows that a Saturn twelfth can result in achieving high public office but his enemies have limited his ability to realise what he wishes to achieve.

Saturn is not a sign of failure but it is a sign of difficulties and the need to overcome problems, even serious ones. So what I want to explore is how accurate this is, as a picture of life up to now.

Edited to Add:

I should also have mentioned that Saturn is on the verge of stationing Retrograde, which it did four days later. Saturn therefore undergoes a phasis or phase change and as such gets added importance in the analysis. This does not make it more or less malefic but simply increases its importance.

I should also add that I have Saturn in the first place, in a night chart, in its Detriment, so I can see some but not all of Saturn's problems in my own life. But I want to be careful not to over-exaggerate Valens' views, as it's perfectly possible to live life quite happily with Saturn LOL
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LeiifA has kindly volunteered to be my next sitter.

Uh Oh, What have I done

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Both Lights are well placed with the Sun in an angle or pivot and the Moon in a succedent house, the house of the Good Spirit' Both lights, but most importantly the Moon as the Sect Light, aspect the Ascendant.

Starts off sounding OK because of the whole sign houses.

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The Ascendant is in Aquarius so the Domicile Ruler of the hour marker is Saturn, who also happens to be the out of sect malefic. itself placed in the twelfth ...... opposition from Mars (which is in its own Fall or Depression). Saturn rules the Twelfth House as well as the Hour Marker.

Its going to get heavy, I just know it.

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The Moon is in the eleventh place of the Good Spirit, where it has associations with friends and sponsors. It's in Sagittarius but in the Confines or Bounds of Mars...... 13 degree orb. The Moon is also in a Sign based Sextile with Jupiter in the first Place. The Moon rules the sixth Place.

Mars in there to mess with my moon that isn't so bad and then the Mars is in the moon's sign.

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Venus is the Benefic of Sect, being placed .... the Fourth Place and the Ninth Place

At least its not idle.

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Mars is in the sixth Place, and the sign of Cancer. The sixth is the Joy of .... rules to Lot of Fortune. Mars rules the Third Place and the Tenth Place.

Not sure why they chose this place as the “Joy” and the Fortune may change.

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Mercury rose after the Sun and technically ....the fifth Place and the eighth place.
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Sun in the fourth Place of Taurus and angular ... aspects as for Mercury The Sun rules the seventh Place.

Jupiter in the first place and also angular with squares to Sun and Mercury. .... and is not threatened by a malefic. Jupiter rules the Eleventh Place and the second Place.
Statements and at least Jupiter is not threatened by a malefic.

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The Lot of Fortune is in the fifth Place and is ruled by Mercury. ..... LeiifA has a feeling that the birth time is not accurate, it's worth pointing out that a birth nine minutes later will shift the Lot into Cancer and I'll consider that in more detail when I look at Zodiacal Releasing

Reconsidering that will be a good thing. Hopefully we can see one way or another.

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The Lot of Spirit is in Virgo in the.... to the ruler of the Ascendant and the Sect Light.

This too will change if the ZR indicates the Fortune needs to be elsewhere.

__________________

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The Hour Marker lies in Aquarius, ruled by Saturn. Valens says:
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Those natives born under the sign of Aquarius can be ....... wet, tending to bring down water.

The idea of Aquarius being unruly .............. one thing at a time.

Much of the other characteristics ............. will come out in the discussion.
Taking your caveats I will go through each sentence and make comments.
Not exactly unruly. If the statement, “hateful of their kind” refers to family then it has some validity. The word “hateful” is a bit strong but I am certainly not fond of my immediate relatives. Unchangeable and one-track mind does happen at times. I would use the word frenetic in place of delirious. I have been accused of being deceitful about my emotions, but I am truthful otherwise. The deceit and craftiness is not intended but seems to be a defense mechanism that should be recognized and discarded. Not easy. I do keep a lot to myself. Misanthropic seems, again, to be a bit harsh but there are tendencies. I don't think I am jealous or envious but I can be stingy to a degree. I have been generous with my time and efforts to the wrong people.
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Valens describes Saturn as:
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Saturn makes those natives born under his influence ...... to those below them in rank.

Saturn types have the a quality of ..... experience of being forced to do other people’s work.
Hmmm, “very little logic” , I guess at times but the minute details can escape me as, if not more, often than being obsessed over. I mostly give “the evil eye” when someone is a jerk not so much because of envy or grudges. I do have more anxiety than I would like and have gone through beaten down times. I am not into crowds, that is for sure. The word “subtle” could be a synonym of repressed or suppressed which can be felt, by others as deceitful. “Crabby”, at times and exacting in details of work or projects. No high position as of this date.

The positive is recognized but through the lens that there seems to be more of the negative. I can be dry but also funny to those close to me. Have not been involved in any large institutions yet. Some of the work I have done was other peoples work that was left for someone else, such as, raising someone else's children.
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Saturn is situated in the twelfth Place, the Place of the Bad Spirit, though it also the place of Saturn’s Joy. .... foreign countries (as for all declining places), enmities, slaves, injuries, dangers, trials, suffering, death and weakness.
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Valens is quite bleak about the twelfth place:
'If the malefics happen to be in this place, they will cause great wounds and traumas, especially if they are in their proper face. ...unfortunate and disgraced, those lacking their daily bread. Many will hold out their hands (for alms)'.
A severe car accident did cause “wounds and traumas” as did some distinct changes in health from foreign travels. As for the “alms” part, there was a time, long ago, I resorted to money from a bloodbank to make ends meet.

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It could also signify problems that occur as the result of travel to foreign places, or at least far from home. such as diseases .....
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Enemies’ here does not ... the two malefics. Mars in a night chart is less malefic and may even prove helpful in some situations. It too is situated in it’s own Joy of the sixth house.
Due to vaccines taken while traveling I developed allergies that still plague me off and on.
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As the out of sect malefic it’s more likely that Saturn will damage Mars, than the other way round. Mars rules the third place of Brothers ...Mars also rules the tenth Place of career and status, so I’m interested whether any effects have been felt in that area of life.

My older brother is very Mars-like. As far as work I have had Saturnine episodes in that I have done a lot of work for quite old cranky women that want more and more for less even though they are wealthy.

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Saturn also overcomes, through a ‘tenth house’ relationship the Sun and Mercury in Taurus. Sun and Mercury have significance for children and for relationships and again those are areas that might be relevant to further discussion.

Please explain further.

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If this seems a bleak, forlorn picture, it’s worth pointing out that George W Bush and Barack Obama both have this placement .... have limited his ability to realize what he wishes to achieve.
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Saturn is not a sign of failure but it is a sign of difficulties and the need to overcome problems, even serious ones. So what I want to explore is how accurate this is, as a picture of life up to now.
As stated above much can be related to though not as severe as Valens portrays.

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I should also have mentioned that Saturn is on the verge of stationing Retrograde, which it did four days later. Saturn therefore undergoes a phasis .....as it's perfectly possible to live life quite happily with Saturn LOL


While is does sound bleak I have been blessed in many ways also. I have a wonderful partner that I have been with for 30 plus years and have had a lot of great experiences that others would envy. Even though, by some standards, I would not be considered successful. I have not always gone a traditional route through life and its been interesting. The rewards are not always measured by bank statements. This is not to say that I am always a joyous person as there are certainly Saturn and Mars undertones.

If you need any of my statements expounded upon let me know.
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I want to start my reply by re-emphasising that Hellenistic Astrologers did not see these characteristics as permanent in your life - they refer to discrete events, sometimes 'one offs', sometimes recurring at intervals and occasionally permanent.

Modern psychological Astrology would see the conditions as permanent and 'counselling' might be needed to overcome the worst challenges in the chart.

Also it would not be expected that all these examples would befall you but some of them should show up

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Originally Posted by LeiifA
If the statement, “hateful of their kind” refers to family then it has some validity. The word “hateful” is a bit strong but I am certainly not fond of my immediate relatives. Unchangeable and one-track mind does happen at times. I would use the word frenetic in place of delirious. I have been accused of being deceitful about my emotions, but I am truthful otherwise. The deceit and craftiness is not intended but seems to be a defense mechanism that should be recognized and discarded. Not easy. I do keep a lot to myself. Misanthropic seems, again, to be a bit harsh but there are tendencies. I don't think I am jealous or envious but I can be stingy to a degree. I have been generous with my time and efforts to the wrong people.
'Kind' could refer to either or both family and 'countrymen' (but don't forget that the 'country' for the Helenistic world was the city or city region, not what we would call a nation or country. Again I'm not sure whether 'hateful' would have the same overtones as the modern meaning but if it does, then I'd take it as the extreme for that kind of feeling.

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Originally Posted by LeiifA
“very little logic” , I guess at times but the minute details can escape me as, if not more, often than being obsessed over. I mostly give “the evil eye” when someone is a jerk not so much because of envy or grudges. I do have more anxiety than I would like and have gone through beaten down times. I am not into crowds, that is for sure. The word “subtle” could be a synonym of repressed or suppressed which can be felt, by others as deceitful. “Crabby”, at times and exacting in details of work or projects. No high position as of this date.
Again it doesn't have to be all of these, they are examples, but I would expect there to be some, and perhaps many of them, and you score reasonably well on these, though 'well' might not be the best choice of words. From my own Saturn in the first, I recognise the dislike of crowds and socialising, except with close family and friends and then in small groups. I can be 'crabby; and at times misanthropic as a first reaction but then it's rejected by other feelings. The tendency to hide emotions, feelings, or simply maintian privacy does lead to passive deceit, but again at times, rather than a permanent condition.

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Originally Posted by LeiifA
The positive is recognized but through the lens that there seems to be more of the negative. I can be dry but also funny to those close to me. Have not been involved in any large institutions yet. Some of the work I have done was other peoples work that was left for someone else, such as, raising someone else's children.
Valens on Saturn

....do other people's work or even raise the child borne by another father.

I truncated Valens quote because I thought that was perhaps an unlikely situation.

In my case the large institution was relevant, I worked for a local college but only made it about half way up the tree.


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Originally Posted by LeiifA
A severe car accident did cause “wounds and traumas” as did some distinct changes in health from foreign travels. As for the “alms” part, there was a time, long ago, I resorted to money from a bloodbank to make ends meet

Due to vaccines taken while traveling I developed allergies that still plague me off and on.
Did the accident occur when you were driving and were you in anyway responsible? I ask that because this could be the primary expression of the Saturn/Mars opposition in your life. Car accidents like all accidents are of the nature of Mars, as are wounds and traumas that spill blood. If you in anyway contributed to the accident then it would emphasise that twelfth house placement of bringing harm or loss on yourself.

The harm through travelling is a clear reference to the twelfth house placement. So this, possibly along with the car accident could be the sole major expressions of Saturn in the twelfth in your life. Clearly the effects of the vaccines are still with you The car accident might no longer effect you but it does not lose relevance because of that. As Mars is in the sixth it does bring something of disease or illness problems. Was that trip in anyway connected with work?

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Originally Posted by LeiifA
Please explain further.
Oops I got this comment wrong. Saturn is not in a tenth house situation, it trines Sun and Mercury, as I said in my first post. So just ignore it.



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Originally Posted by LeiifA
While is does sound bleak I have been blessed in many ways also. I have a wonderful partner that I have been with for 30 plus years and have had a lot of great experiences that others would envy. Even though, by some standards, I would not be considered successful. I have not always gone a traditional route through life and its been interesting. The rewards are not always measured by bank statements. This is not to say that I am always a joyous person as there are certainly Saturn and Mars undertones.
Again I would stress that these conditions would not be seen as a constant in Hellenistic Astrology but would certainly manifest either once, in which case it would be serious, or on several occasions.

The relationships point is a good one. We've been together, now for 39 years, and Saturn rules my seventh Place, through Aquarius.
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The next step, after we've finished on the Ascendant ruler will be to look at one or two topical areas that you are interested in. So if you can let me know which areas of life you want, I'll make a start on gathering the information.
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I want to start my reply by re-emphasizing that Hellenistic Astrologers did not see these characteristics as permanent in your life - they refer to discrete events, sometimes 'one offs', sometimes recurring at intervals and occasionally permanent.
That is comforting.

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Also it would not be expected that all these examples would befall you but some of them should show up...... though 'well' might not be the best choice of words.
Certainly more than just some ... hence the "score reasonably well"

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....do other people's work or even raise the child borne by another father.
Valens seemed to hit the mark there.

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Did the accident occur when you were driving and were you in anyway responsible? I ask that because this could be the primary expression of the Saturn/Mars opposition in your life. Car accidents like all accidents are of the nature of Mars, as are wounds and traumas that spill blood. If you in anyway contributed to the accident then it would emphasise that twelfth house placement of bringing harm or loss on yourself.
Certainly seems like 12th house as I was driving and it was totally my fault. Had been to a party and left intoxicated at 2 AM. Pulled over to sleep it off about 20 minutes from the party and don't remember waking at 7 AM and driving a couple miles further down the road where I crashed into a power pole. There was blood and bruising.

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The harm through travelling is a clear reference to the twelfth house placement. So this, possibly along with the car accident could be the sole major expressions of Saturn in the twelfth in your life. Clearly the effects of the vaccines are still with you The car accident might no longer effect you but it does not lose relevance because of that. As Mars is in the sixth it does bring something of disease or illness problems. Was that trip in anyway connected with work?
The car accident is still affecting my life as I had major tooth damage and every 5 to 10 years another tooth acts up. The overseas trip was not connected with work.

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Again I would stress that these conditions would not be seen as a constant in Hellenistic Astrology but would certainly manifest either once, in which case it would be serious, or on several occasions.
I definitely like this statement ... as you can imagine with my chart.

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The relationships point is a good one. We've been together, now for 39 years, and Saturn rules my seventh Place, through Aquarius.
Saturn does have a stabilizing affect. Congratulations on the long-lived relationship. They are becoming rare.
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Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
The next step, after we've finished on the Ascendant ruler will be to look at one or two topical areas that you are interested in. So if you can let me know which areas of life you want, I'll make a start on gathering the information.
The first area of interest would be housing or home. We would like to stay where we are but the landlady has passed and the heirs will be selling the complex. We are half a block from the Atlantic and get to walk the beach frequently. We may get a good new owner but who knows? Maybe Valens?

The second area would be career or work if my chart does not show a career. In the past I have done home repairs but I am not sure I want to start that again. I am good at it but maybe something else is in the stars. I can elaborate more if you would like or wait until we see what the stars show?

Thank You for doing all this.
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2 things


Hi Minderwiz,

I had 2 things I was wondering about.

I mentioned earlier that I saw a discrepancy between Aphesis and Delphic Oracle in relation to ZR. Do you see that also?

Are you no longer going over the Nautical Metaphor? I may have missed it if you already mentioned why.

Thanks,
LeiifA
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Originally Posted by LeiifA View Post
Hi Minderwiz,

I had 2 things I was wondering about.

I mentioned earlier that I saw a discrepancy between Aphesis and Delphic Oracle in relation to ZR. Do you see that also?

Are you no longer going over the Nautical Metaphor? I may have missed it if you already mentioned why.

Thanks,
LeiifA
Yes there are discrepencies between Aphesis and Delphic Oracle. As far as I'm aware, Aphesis has not been updated for a long time, whereas there have been updates to the Delphic Oracle AR module.

On the Nautical Metaphor, I think I said I'll cover it at the end. I'm beginning to agree with Chris Brennan, that Schmidt overdoes it, so I'll try to see if I can arrive at a more simple version. I shall however cover The Triplicity Lords of the Sect Light, after the topics. That really means that I will only have to look at the Confine (Terms) Lord of the Sect Light and the Ruler of the Lot of Fortune, though I think my next post will be a brief one on the Lots and their Rulers.
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Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
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Rulers of the Places and the Lots - The Lots of Fortune and Spirit


The Lot of Fortune

The Lot of Fortune signifies what fate bestows on you. In more modern terms, it shows your vulnerability to outside forces that either help or hinder your progress through life. It lies in Gemini in the fifth Place. It is therefore ruled by Mercury. The two Places that are the subject of the topical analysis are the Tenth Place (Career) and the Fourth Place (Home and Family). Both these places are important ones in the chart but both are averse to the Lot itself. Mercury is configured to the Tenth by an Opposition and is situated in the Fourth Place. So aversion of the Lot to the Places is, at least in part, balanced by the Lot ruler being configured to both places.

Mercury is configured to both malefics, but these are a sextile to Mars, the Malefic of Sect and sextile by sign rather than degree. Mercury is also in a sign based configuration to Saturn, the Out of Sect Malefic, though in this case the configuration is by trine and again by a wide margin. Mercury’s only other aspect is to Jupiter by square. Jupiter is a benefic, though out of Sect. The margin is quite wide, by ten degrees. The square is somewhat mitigated by Mercury being in the Terms of Jupiter (Confines or Limits in Hellenistic terms). This means that there is some Reception and, whilst I don’t think the Hellenistic Astrologers would given this any real credit, I can’t see it signifying anything less than benign disinterest on the part of Jupiter.

Although not strictly as aspect, Mercury is in close conjunction with the Sun, which means it’s under the beams, the only good part of it is that Mercury is later in the sign than the Sun, so it is moving away, rather than towards the conjunction. As Mercury is not in one of it’s own dignities, this state of being under the beams,this might limit Mercury’s ability to signify its role in any clear fashion. Thus the positive configurations may not easily translate into positive effects. One of these configurations is the sextile to Mars, ruler of the Tenth Place.

Mercury is placed in the Fourth, though it is averse to its ruler, Venus, placed in the second. Venus does however aspect the Lot of Fortune by sextile. though it’s sign based rather than by degree. Venus is the Benefic of Sect, so I would think that this configuration is going to add to the lot that fate deals out in a positive way, despite the ‘overcoming’ square from Saturn. That will reduce the positive but hopefully not remove it. In turn this might well signify something that helps to offset the influence of Saturn, that we saw in the last post. I don’t expect this offset to be complete by any means but it does show that there’s a positive force here.

The Lot is also in close opposition to the Moon, the Sect Light. The Moon is not a malefic and the Lot of Fortune is sometimes described as the Lot of the Moon. In a sense the configuration to the Sect Light is a positive indication there is a configuration, and that is better than nothing. However you might experience some conflicts arising out of the actions of friends or sponsors, which bring difficulties outside your control.

Mercury is configured to the Ascendant, as is the Lot, so according to Schmidt’s nautical metaphor, Mercury should be able to see the opportunities and threats coming and therefore indicate that you are not constantly reacting to things but can plan ahead. I’m not sure how much this will be reduced by Mercury’s current phase of being under the beams but everything else for Mercury is quite positive. So I’m suggesting that it might not perform to what it should do if unhampered by the beams but it will still yield a positive signification.

The Lot of Spirit

This Lot indicates your ability to influence the world around you through your own actions. The Lot of Fortune became associated with health and your body, because this tended to be the main area that could influence your success from outside. The Lot of Spirit became associated with career and public actions because this is the main way that you can influence how well you do throughout your life. This Lot will therefore be of particular importance for the topic of career.

The Lot lies in Virgo in the Eighth Place. That means that it is ruled by Mercury, as is the Lot of Fortune. So I don’t need to comment again on Mercury and it’s configurations. The Lot itself is not well positioned in the eighth, having no configuration to the Ascendant. It does however have a configuration to the Tenth Place by sextile and to the Tenth Place ruler, Mars, also by sextile. It is also in Trine to its ruler Mercury and to the Sun. All of these configurations will be favourable to some extent and certainly will not be unfavourable. This also means that the Lot of Spirit is configured to the Fourth Place in a favourable way, so it should indicate positive actions by you in building a home and family (and indeed the corresponding real estate).

The remaining aspects are a square from the Moon in the eleventh but this is an inferior square. I’d like some feedback on how far friends and/or sponsors (for example customers in your career) helped or hindered the situation by their actions or created and difficulties when it came to your own attempts to assert yourself, through career or social actions. I’m certainly not sure they would act in this way but it is a possible interpretation of difficulties. At least if they didn’t cause issues, I can write that one off. The Moon also rules the twelfth place and as this features in my next comment, I’ll deal with it there.

The last aspect to the Lot of Spirit comes from Saturn which trines the Lot from the twelfth house. Saturn is the Out of Sect Malefic, as well as being the Ascendant ruler. The aspect is not a threatening one, so it may be that Saturn has little effect here. However, as I have identified Saturn as you being your own worst enemy, in certain circumstances (your actions make things worse), I was wondering if you had any examples of that from a career perspective or where you have tried to act in a socially responsible way but got it wrong. As the Moon rules the Twelfth, it is possible that the square from the Moon to Spirit might signify the actions of enemies or ‘slaves’ (employees, or someone simply helping out) which made things worse.

In my next post, I'll look at the Triplcity Rulers of the Sect Light and two further Lots. Valens uses them plus Fortune and Spirit to consider the overall stability and fortune of the native's life, together with the Domicile Ruler of the Hour Marker (Ascendant( that I have already covered.
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