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Suicide


As per vedic astrology the 4th house determines the state of mind.
Any affliction to 4th house indicates that person is vulnerable to attempt suicide
The presence of malefics with moon adds fuel to the fire.
And Weaker sun even magnifies the issue
I also read that Saturn + Mars combination means courage to actually go ahead
and attempt suicide

What is western astrology take on this topic??

Chiron the wounded healer with malefic will definitely give more intensity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NamasteIndia View Post
As per vedic astrology the 4th house determines the state of mind.
Any affliction to 4th house indicates that person is vulnerable to attempt suicide
The presence of malefics with moon adds fuel to the fire.
And Weaker sun even magnifies the issue
I also read that Saturn + Mars combination means courage to actually go ahead
and attempt suicide

What is western astrology take on this topic??

Chiron the wounded healer with malefic will definitely give more intensity
My dad was suicidal and so was his dad...there was like a suicide gene in the family going way back..i wonder how that ties in with the chart? I have had those feelings too so would be very interested to see what the indications are
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Originally Posted by NamasteIndia View Post
I also read that Saturn + Mars combination means courage to actually go ahead
and attempt suicide
You caught my attention with this... what sort of Saturn/Mars combination? Could you elaborate?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .traveller. View Post
You caught my attention with this... what sort of Saturn/Mars combination? Could you elaborate?
here is a article from vedic astrology describing traits for suicide.
the combination of mercury(intellect) and other planet determines how the suicide will be attempted
Its strange i always wondered how a person could jump from a height of 30/40 floors and attempt suicide. but yes north node and mercury combined can give guts to a person to actually jump from height
and lying down on railway track means saturn+mercury combination coupled with transit period
pushes a person to extreme
http://www.astrogle.com/astrology/me...-tendency.html
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Suicide


Suicide, like any form of death, seems most often to be a very personal decision. Unlike many death situations, however, suicide tends to involve another person in the role of "being the reason" why death is the solution. Still, this is in the individuals mind.

I would think that many "standard" or "typical" suicide signatures would be found to be invalid in most cases due to this personal approach to life and death.

For instance, Alan Turing, the brilliant English mathematician who broke the German Enigma code during WW II, had no significant transits to his natal chart's angles and only a t/Venus squaring his natal Moon at the South Node. Nobody would predict suicide from this pattern alone.

However, when we utilize other cyclic charts as well as taking into account the context of the subject's life we may be able to see possible suicide in a chart. Again, using Turings chart as a singular example, a Sidereal Progressed Solar Return (actually cast as a precession corrected Tropical Return) advanced to his June 7, 1954 date of suicide shows us that:
1) t/Sun was opposing his daily/advanced Ascendant. The Sun (vitality, sense of purpose, decisions) was at the ancient death angle, the 7th house cusp.
2) n/Moon near the daily MC was squaring t/Venus. Venus is often found in cyclic death charts as indicating a "balancing" factor, resolving conflicts.
3) n/Pluto conjoins n/Venus, making this pair a "fated" trigger that can be activated in cyclic charts. We have seen that n/Venus' counterpart, t/Venus has played its role. If we look at n/Pluto's counterpart, we find t/Pluto at 22 Leo where it combines with the daily Asc. at 18 Sag to make the MC the midpoint of Asc/Pluto. This changes the MC as a personal status/goal/public image factor into a pressure point of how to act to resolve his "problem." His problem was that he was a homosexual in post-war British society which was being racked by sexual scandals in the Intelligence community and its cold war against the Soviets. He had been "found out" two years earlier and stripped of his security clearance, work, and purpose in life. All this relates to the CONTEXT OF LIFE that I had referred to earlier.

If we turn to another favorite form of cyclic charting that I use, t/Moon-to-n/Sun Returns we find more telling indications of problems for Alan Turning:
4) the June 2nd, 1954 t/Moon-to-n/Sun occurred in the 9th house, indicating (citing my next-year's book interpretation for this) offers three interpretive statements to fit an individual's life context. The third context-sensitive statement is "Leaving or avoiding a place or situation that one detests."
5) This t/Moon-to-n/Sun Return has t/Neptune on the Ascendant, squaring n/Neptune. This is a confusing and highly idealistic period for Turing. How could his vision for what is life's work was producing be so "disolved" in front of him? (He had been developing the basic tools for today's modern computers, for which he has been recognized).
6) His natal MC-Uranus combination is at the IC of this return chart. His work and status in life was at and end and had to find a new beginning. t/Mercury, t/Jupiter, t/Moon were at the MC. Where was his mental-work, his opportunity, his public acceptance? It had all been taken from him due to his homosexuality.

If we advance this chart, just as we advance Dirunal charts, to June 7th, we find:
7) n/Asc. in the 8th house of sex, death and taxes, squared by t/Moon from the 11th house of future and friends. He perceived himself as having no friends and no future if we remember the CONTEXT OF HIS LIFE.
8) t/Part of Fortune (so important when dealing with sun-moon charts) tells us how the Ascendant might "act" to express itself. t/PoF opposes t/Uranus in the 9th house where the Moon-to-Sun return occurred. t/PoF also opposes n/Neptune, more confusion is added to the mental mix. It would seem that a sudden decision was made.
9) The chart's Asc. is bracketed closely by t/Saturn and t/Neptune. Societies rules need to be dissolved so as to be free of them.

These are limited examples of how cyclic charts work when placed within the context of the subject's life. I hope they spark some interest and recognition that simple astrology with just a natal chart alone doesn't help one to fully understand events that shape our life. My blog site at http://www.ninthhouse.wordpress.com/ offers several years of such posting using cyclic charts. Dave
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This is a very interesting subject, as I read, I think I am understanding Dave to say that astrology can not predict this with accuracy? Is that right Dave. Yet I do believe to come extent it's predisposed, only because I dreamed of this happening in my family many years before it actually happened. This is a good topic- I will read the links and the blog.
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Contrary


YDM42. I should make myself very clear on prediction. Seldom can one look at a chart, as an astrologer and not as a psychic, and absolutely "see" the event in one's life. Yet, when we have an opportunity to share with a client many details in their life, we find ourselves having a CONTEXT into which we can place various types of charts and their symbols. From this we can predict.

First, we do have to know how one's life is flowing and what is likely to be "possible".

Second, the type of chart we use has to be appropriate for what we are looking for. I use Solar Returns and their progressed daily angles charts. S/R's and daily charts are good for seeing events reflecting one's decisions, attitude, actions. Another type of charting I use is Moon-to-Sun returns; these are good for viewing one "daily life" situations and the way we react to them so as to maintain the natal Sun-Moon relationship balance that we seek in our personal life. One can use any of a variety of charts depending upon their search.

Let me note this about cyclic charting compared to natal charts and their derivatives.
** A natal chart is typically looked at using transits. These seldom reflect or accurately time events in our life. We also progress a natal chart using various methods related to the day-for-a-year concept. These are symbolic, several days after birth symbolizes several years after birth. These progressed charts seem to indicate broad developments in life but only offer generalities in most cases set against a "period" of time when they might happen.
** A cyclic chart represents a specific type of relationship between selected planets. The type of cyclic charts places both natal and transiting planets into a different frame of experience-reference, an altered zodiac positioning that re-frames the signs and houses that we might currently be working within. Natal planets, transiting planets, and a different zodiac orientation provides the cyclic context. This is a fine point that many astrologers do not appreciate. Dave
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suicide cannot be predicted.
but afflictions to 4th house, 5th house, sun and moon debiliation, combination of saturn + mars can lead to depression and suicidal tendencies
and during transits of the 7th and 2nd house planets chances are more
or during 7.5 years period of sade sati the person can attempt suicide.
http://webspace.webring.com/people/ld/dada1/astro.html
chiron plays a major role.
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Thanks Dave that makes sense and it clears up a great deal of questions I had concerning astrology and the usefulness of it in ones day to day life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadsnook2000 View Post
YDM42. I should make myself very clear on prediction. Seldom can one look at a chart, as an astrologer and not as a psychic, and absolutely "see" the event in one's life. Yet, when we have an opportunity to share with a client many details in their life, we find ourselves having a CONTEXT into which we can place various types of charts and their symbols. From this we can predict.

First, we do have to know how one's life is flowing and what is likely to be "possible".
ok this makes sense in that we exist in a world of infinite possibilities, and specific influences.

Quote:
Second, the type of chart we use has to be appropriate for what we are looking for. I use Solar Returns and their progressed daily angles charts. S/R's and daily charts are good for seeing events reflecting one's decisions, attitude, actions. Another type of charting I use is Moon-to-Sun returns; these are good for viewing one "daily life" situations and the way we react to them so as to maintain the natal Sun-Moon relationship balance that we seek in our personal life. One can use any of a variety of charts depending upon their search.
Makes sense.

Quote:
Let me note this about cyclic charting compared to natal charts and their derivatives.
** A natal chart is typically looked at using transits. These seldom reflect or accurately time events in our life. We also progress a natal chart using various methods related to the day-for-a-year concept. These are symbolic, several days after birth symbolizes several years after birth. These progressed charts seem to indicate broad developments in life but only offer generalities in most cases set against a "period" of time when they might happen.
** A cyclic chart represents a specific type of relationship between selected planets. The type of cyclic charts places both natal and transiting planets into a different frame of experience-reference, an altered zodiac positioning that re-frames the signs and houses that we might currently be working within. Natal planets, transiting planets, and a different zodiac orientation provides the cyclic context. This is a fine point that many astrologers do not appreciate. Dave
Thank you so much for clarifying that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NamasteIndia View Post
suicide cannot be predicted.
but afflictions to 4th house, 5th house, sun and moon debiliation, combination of saturn + mars can lead to depression and suicidal tendencies
and during transits of the 7th and 2nd house planets chances are more
or during 7.5 years period of sade sati the person can attempt suicide.
http://webspace.webring.com/people/ld/dada1/astro.html
chiron plays a major role.
NamasteIndia, what you are saying is vaguely making sense to me, and what I mean by that is I understand it on a level that I am not yet fluid in, but certain key words are evoking a deep understanding in my subliminal mind. If that makes sense. Chiron being the wounded healer is one of them. I appreciate your help.
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