Hermanubis = Cynocephalus Ape?

Zephyros

Breaking my teeth on Fortune here, and it appears to me there is something strange about it. Why the Sphinx is attributed to sulphur I'll find out on my own, but why is the Ape from the Magus, the reflection/companion of Thoth who turns everything he says into falsehood, there? Is this because he is on the rim of the wheel, and so is falsehood by default?

And doesn't Hermanubis have the head of a jackal (Anubis)? Cynocephalus means dog-headed, is this a clever way of have two symbols for the price of one?
 

ravenest

Breaking my teeth on Fortune here, and it appears to me there is something strange about it. Why the Sphinx is attributed to sulphur I'll find out on my own,

And post your thoughts?
but why is the Ape from the Magus, the reflection/companion of Thoth who turns everything he says into falsehood, there? Is this because he is on the rim of the wheel, and so is falsehood by default?

I would say that is one reason; he represents the mental aspect hence falshood from his intrinsic nature (see The Book of Lies) as well as his position.
And doesn't Hermanubis have the head of a jackal (Anubis)? Cynocephalus means dog-headed, is this a clever way of have two symbols for the price of one?

All the characters seem dual natured. Have you read the Rite of Jupiter ? Part one is an enactment of these characters dynamics.
 

Zephyros

I have read it, and have taken a short walk (my "meditation," apparently) and have come up with a few points, that seem to fit comfortably, at least in my head.

Fortune represents both good and bad luck, the element of unpredictability. Essentially anything that happens is either one or the other, but still follows the abstract rules set out above the abyss, where there are no contradictions. The image of a wooden spoon stirring a pot would be just as apt, perhaps. Here, however, we are below, and each of the figures is in some way a "perversion" of the purity of those same rules as above.

Typhon is salt, the inert matter corresponding to the Empress and Binah. His is a "limiting" quality, but takes the form of death here below, as Saturn (attributed to Binah) also symbolizes time and old age, both forms of death. Mercury takes the form of the Ape, because down here the Word of the Magus/Hermes/Thoth/etc. has been transmitted, and so carries with it the implication of falsehood, of second hand news (an IKEA table never looks as good as the instructions say it will, same thing with the universe). The Sphinx is a tough one, and I'm guessing it is sulphur because it is acting out the authority of the Emperor, separating the initiated (those that can solve its riddle) from those who can't. This again is a lower reflection of the pure authoritative but abstract creative drive of the Emperor.

One could also make the case that all three are interchangeable, being on a wheel. Mercury is related to the Hermit, who as Yod is related to Chochma, related to the Knights, related to sulphur. The Sphinx is related to Binah in its viciousness, as in death, relating to Nun/Typhon. Typhon is the father of volcanoes, so fire, going back to sulphur... etc. I haven't put my thoughts in order on this aspect, so I'm not as organized on that I would like, but I will be in a few days.

Jupiter, of course, at the center of the wheel, does not move, and resolves all contradictions (but perhaps in a limited fashion from Chesed).

What do you think?
 

ravenest

Sounds good so far (considering your thoughts are yet to be in order ;) )

The general aspect you outlined with good or bad fortune seems to suggest the Wheel is a central cog in a 'machine' that translates the 'swirling' forces of the environment ( time and space) interacting with the 'self' ; where ever that happens to be ( in time, location and association {'right company'} - as the Sufis say - another three principles to be considered).

So in a way, the Wheel represents 'chance' but in another way it is the compex workings of interactions. And perhaps in one way an opposite of an outward understanding of 'karma' but perhaps a real dynamic of 'karma'? ( sorry :laugh:)

I am often at variance with the alchemical association and see the 3 part dynamic better as feeling, thought and ecsatcy. Feeling is reactive, thought is responsive and ecsatcy is the higher conciousness when the two are balanced.

It's probably alchemical incorrect ? but I see reactive sulpher as the reactive emotions, reactive mercury as the responsive (fluid) thought and stabalising salt as the ecstacy and a 'blend' of the other two ( a 'salt of' mercurial sulphide) ... sorta.
 

Zephyros

Yes, that's right, a machine was what I was aiming at. It reminds me of a lottery machine, each ball bouncing off all others. If each ball was a molecule, those bounces would create new materials which would in turn interact with all the others. Like you said, it isn't "chance" but a complex web of interactions that only seem completely random. This card also implies some pretty powerful statements about free will, chance, predestination, fate and (apologies in advance!) Karma.

A lottery machine could also be thought of as a diagram of heat, which is molecules speeding up. The turning of the wheel is suggested by the nature of heat and air pressure. Hot, pressurized air always moves to a place of lower pressure until all pressures equalize (but because of all the balls bouncing off each other, they never do), which is, simplistically, why we have wind and air currents.

While analyzing this card I was reminded of Roseanne's thread in the Historical forum, about the meaning of אהיה אשר אהיה (I will be what I will be). I posited one interpretation that this meant God was Change, the momentum of the universe, the driving force, and this seems to fit Fortune quite nicely. I really like the apparent presence of a second wheel up top, implying a "greater hierarchy" (Waite?) to the one we see in the middle. The demiurge may be at the center of the wheel, but his presence is still minute considering the bigger picture.

The area of the Tree Kaph is in mirrors the three figures, and shows the three stages in human life. Yod/Hermit as Mercury/point/sperm; Kaph/Fortune as the Sphinx/sulphur; Nun/Death as Typhon/salt. Birth, action and death. Here, though, being a triangle, rather than a circle, this implies all three are simultaneous and omnipresent. This is reflected on the other side of the Tree, but I have to do some more work on that yet, especially on how the Devil reflects Death (in the context of these two triangles), so for now I'll leave it at that. In any case, adding up the letters comes to 80, meaning Yesod, the machinery of the manifest (and near the top, separating the main scene from the stars and wheel above, are nine stars).

Next step is to look at Liber Tav, which should make more sense now than two years ago when I started.

The BOTA card, though, is very strange. The Sphinx seems to be attributed to mercury, while the snake to sulphur. In addition, Case mentions Hermanubis, but he is nowhere.
 

Aeon418

The BOTA card, though, is very strange. The Sphinx seems to be attributed to mercury, while the snake to sulphur. In addition, Case mentions Hermanubis, but he is nowhere.

Case is using the 'normal' attributions. It's Crowley who is doing something different with his version of Fortune.

In the notes to column LXIX in 777 Crowley gives:

Sattvas - Mercury.

Rajas - Sulphur

Tamas - Salt.

My theory is that the 'normal' attributions are static and idealized. Crowley's card is an attempt at showing that "the Gunas revolve".
 

Zephyros

My theory is that the 'normal' attributions are static and idealized. Crowley's card is an attempt at showing that "the Gunas revolve".

I agree, this portrayal is far more dynamic and exciting than any other. I use the BOTA for comparison, as the Hermetic's card is a lot drier, with only a Sphinx. It does have the same attributions, though. I have to remind myself to compare, though; the Thoth departs from tradition in big, obvious ways but also small and subtle ones.
 

ravenest

Case is using the 'normal' attributions. It's Crowley who is doing something different with his version of Fortune.

In the notes to column LXIX in 777 Crowley gives:

Sattvas - Mercury.

Rajas - Sulphur

Tamas - Salt.

My theory is that the 'normal' attributions are static and idealized. Crowley's card is an attempt at showing that "the Gunas revolve".

? Arent they the normal attributions? Or are you saying he lists them in 777 as normal but changes them for the card as they are 'in rotation' on the card?

I want to look it up and cross reference but I have to get out of bed and let my neighbours ducks out .... alchemical/tarot/ thoth symbolism and ducks : thats my life!
 

Aeon418

? Arent they the normal attributions? Or are you saying he lists them in 777 as normal but changes them for the card as they are 'in rotation' on the card?

Yes that's it. Sorry I should have been clearer. The 777 attributions are the 'normal' ones.

On the Fortune card the obvious attribution would be Mercury - Sattvas - Sphinx. Case agrees on this point, and judging by the RWS card, so did Waite. But Crowley is doing something different (in the specific context of Atu X) by attributing the Sphinx to Sulphur. He says as much in the final paragraph on page 90 of the Book of Thoth. As I said above I think Crowley wanted to show the Gunas revolving and this led him to treat the attributions (in the context of Atu X) in a more fluid and dynamic way.
 

ravenest

I'm back (duck panick - FOOD!)

Maybe he thought the association was more apt considering feeling, thought and ecstacy rater than creation, destruction and preservation?