HUH ?
Hi Dryope. you posted under my last with a 'you' so I assume that is me ? So I will try to clear some things up for you.
Although I can understand your point of view when I look at the card, your explaination goes against everything I have read about it,
Then I think you need to broaden your understanding and take the CONTEXT of what you have read and be able to apply it to other things and processes.
the card is called lust instead of strenght because; "the path (on the qabalistic tree of life) corresponding to the card is not the Strength of Geburah but the influence from Chesed (mercy) upon Geburah", this quote comes from the book of Thoth.
Yes ... I have that book and I have been reading and using it for ... ummm ... about 30 years. This is an interesting idea but is it valid? Your 'WHY' above doesn't explain why the influence of mercy upon strength would be called Lust. What you outline is talking about the Tree of Life paths and associations not why the card has the title it does. Crowley was very eclectic and incorporated many different themes and meanings into the cards ... not just one set; being Kabbalistic. His reason for the title is an EXTENSION of the above idea; “Lust implies not only strength, but the joy of strength exercised. It is vigour, and the rapture of vigour”.
The woman on the beast is Babalon, the scarlet woman, to my understanding she is a depiction of the great mother (Binah, which is connected to Geburah) and the 'lion' is a depiction of the father (Chochmah which is connected to Chesed)
Generally I would agree with that.
(mind that Chesed and Geburah are both on the physical plane,
That's a curious statement, how do you justify that. Some say the physical plane doesn't come into the Tree of Life at all , some think it is a manifestation out of Malkuth. Even if we see Malkuth as the physical plane, once we get to Yesod it is 'non-physical', let alone positions or spheres above Tiphareth ???
they seem to be physical reflections a Chochmah and Binah in a sense, although on the other hand they are te opposite).
Physical.... again ?
"It represents the act of the original marriage as it occurs in nature", another quote from the book of Thoth.
So to me this card represents the power that lies within the wonder of creation,
yes, I agree with this , ON ONE LEVEL this is what the card shows ... but the Thoth and Crowley are capable of working on many levels at the same time.
the energy that is channeled trough the active male power and which takes shape within the passive female force, so to speak, the bliss that connects these forces in the 'deeds of the flesh' bring forth great power.
Yes ... in a way ... however I am wary of the male/ female usage and how you describe it Look at the card ... does the female force look so 'passive' isn't she the one riding the beast, isn't she the one bringing forth the cup (kukuyon) into the world and releasing the snakes, The male must be passive and receiving to get the 'active male power' in the first place then he becomes active in passing on the POWER ... (sounds so biased doesn't it ... lets change it to ' spirit/seed' ... as in the seed of life * ) ... he becomes active in the passing to the female and she is passive and receiving ... but now it is with her ... the male is finished in this process, now the female becomes 'active' ... extremely active in developing the seed.
I see - one of the messages in the card - that the woman is on top of and riding the 'male' energy. Crowley certainly acknowledged the equality of the sexes and although he wrote some crappy stuff about it the actual magical structure of things he developed (like the O.T.O.) show no such distinction.
Offcourse there is much more to say about this card, and maybe not all that I write is right, but for now this is my main impression.
Over time and study it will grow. I suggest a broader approach to get subtle gnosis extracted from Crowley's system ... look for other ways he described the working of this energy and formular encapsulated in that card; The Book of the Law, The Gnostic Mass, the sexual western tantric teachings in the higher OTO degrees, etc.
When I read your post, a poem by Crowley that I recently read came to my mind:
"The world for a whore!
The sky for a harlot!
All life - at your door -
For a Woman of Scarlet!
A bitter exchange?
A bad bargain to strike! It
May seem to you strange-
The fact is - I like it!
You offer me gold,
Place, power, and pleasure
To have and to hold-
Inexhaustible treasure!
I'll give it and more
In this planet of boredom
For a girl that's a whore
And is proud of her whoredom."
This does not seem to be a poem written by someone who would depicture a man as a willess victim of lust,
No it doesn't ... so I wonder why you wrote that ???
Are you saying that (somehow
) you think that is what I was saying in my post; that the card "would depicture a man as a willess victim of lust" ??? Will less victim of lust ... me? ...thinking a major arcana in the Thoth deck is about that ????
I actually had to read through my last post again to see how you came up with that (IF that is what you mean ) and I cant, see how you came to those assumptions from what I wrote ???
it seems more like it's a (sacred?) game is which men an woman engage willingly on the material plane to enjoy a feeling of bliss and at the same time give shape to energy.
I would agree more if you didn't keep bringing it down to the physical plane.
Read up a bit on non-physical internal psychological dynamics and some Jung (or just google anima / animus) for a deeper understanding of what my post IS referring to, it certainly ISN'T suggesting that the Thoth Major Arcana Lust is about 'depicture a man as a willess victim of lust' !
EDIT: I was thinking about what I just wrote about passive female energy and male active energy and realized that on the material plane, the sefirot which are passive on the astral plane, are active, Geburah is a very active Sefira (Mars is the planet which is attributed to Geburah) and Chesed is of a more passive nature, I think, that could explain why the beast in the Lust card has sort of a submissive look to it in a way.
Submissive ... ??? You yourself quoted at the top of your post that it is Chesed that influences Geburah “…not the Strength of Geburah but the influence from Chesed (mercy) upon Geburah”
I don’t understand what a sephiroth on the material plane is or how the “beast” becomes reversed polarity on the physical plane … they are all on the ideal or metaphorical plane … the manifestation of these ideals on the physical plane do not take identical form so IMO there is no ‘ reversed polarity 7 headed material beast’. Also there is no ‘submission’ in this card ; “in her left hand she holds the reins, representing the passion which unites them.”
There are interesting threads elsewhere on the Strength card with interesting observations made … I like LRichards comment that no matter how strong one is one can’t FORCE the lions mouth open it has to willingly comply … some might see that as submission but there is no other hint of such a thing in the Thoth card … it is a uniting of energies to a common symbiotic goal.
* not the actual sperm but that spirit that passes into the sperm to enable it to combine with that spirit that passes into the ovum making a new and unique spirit ... in the indigenous tradition of my country a man goes to a waterhole and gets a form of 'spirit-seed-germ' from the waterhole , the man is passive and being 'fertilized', 'nature' is active - he then takes this back to his wife and passes it on to her, now he becomes active and giving and she becomes passive and receiving, next she becomes active and passes energy 'out' and 'into' the new being (which has become passive and receiving)
Look deep into your 2 of discs - sexual tantra is a cyclic energy
