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Mermaid
Citizen
Join Date: 16 Feb 2002
Location: Aotearoa New Zealand
Posts: 352
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Rider Waite symbols...
Does anyone know the meaning of the white rose and red lily that appear on the cards in the Rider Waite deck? For example: The fool holds a white rose Death has a white rose on his flag The people kneeling before the hierophant have a lily and rose design on their backs They're on heaps more cards too (including a few minor arcana ones), but I can't remember where I've seen them without my deck handy. Does anyone know if there's some interesting symbolism behind this - or did the deck's creator just like drawing lilies and roses? BB Mermaid
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Mermaid "If you're born again - do you have two belly buttons?" |
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11-03-2002
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Luned
Resident
Join Date: 04 Aug 2001
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 43
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from Rachel Pollack's Seventy Eight Degrees of Wisdom..... the Fool's white rose - rose=passion, white=purity, together equal the "passions raised to a higher level" Death's white rose = "desires purified, for when the ego dies selfish and repressive needs die with it" - I love that, makes me want to be a better person..... Interestingly, she doesn't mention the clothing of the two acolytes on the Heirophant. It seems the symbolism of flowers in tarot is invariably important, no doubt others will come up with more comments.
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11-03-2002
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Mermaid
Citizen
Join Date: 16 Feb 2002
Location: Aotearoa New Zealand
Posts: 352
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Thanks for all your ideas! I had another look at my deck last night, and found the other cards that I was thinking about: The plants in front of the magician's table are ... lilies and rose bushes. The design on the stone wall in the 2 of wands is ... lilies and roses. And in the back ground of the Ace of Pentacles is a hedge made of white roses. It seems to be a bit of a recurring theme! BB Mermaid
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Mermaid "If you're born again - do you have two belly buttons?" |
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11-03-2002
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the book i study from says that white signifies innocence/purity of motive (as luned also mentioned) and red is ardour/eagerness/endurance, i think the flowers in front of the magicians table probably shows what he can accomplish with enough grounding and inspiration 
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"when the moon is a counterfeit better find the one that fits better find the one that lights the way for you" --Bec Hansen |
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12-03-2002
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I liked the idea that the rose in the Fool card represented his soul, which he is holding onto loosely - almost in danger of losing. again, it is white as a symbol of purity.
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I hugged a tree once; then it got a restraining order. |
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12-03-2002
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Major Tom 
Papa Toad
Join Date: 05 Aug 2001
Location: Suffolk, England
Posts: 8,719
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Symbols on tarot cards are rarely there because the artist enjoyed drawing them. From The Tarot by Paul Foster Case: "The rose in the Fool's left hand is white, to indicate freedom from the lower forms of desire and passion and also to show that it refers to the spiritual prototype of desire." "Red roses typify Venus and the desire nature. White lilies represent abstract thought, untinged by desire."
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"We are all free to do whatever we want to do...Isn't that a great way to run a Universe?" from 'Illusions' by Richard Bach "Freedom makes a huge requirement of every human being. With freedom comes responsibility." Eleanor Roosevelt |
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13-03-2002
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Original Destiny
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Join Date: 26 Nov 2001
Location: yorkshire wolds
Posts: 288
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I typed in A.E.Waite and got Google to websearch..one of the sights is dedicated to the symbolism of the cards...Out of curiosity I looked at The Heirophant...It mentions the rose/lily themes...the rose and lily appear in the golden dawns initiation ceremony for the ZELDAR grade ..this suggests that WAITE has initiation in mind when using them...The Heirophant is the title of an official in the Dawns ceremonies
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I feel that I am diagonally parked in a parallel universe |
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17-03-2002
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Original Destiny
Citizen
Join Date: 26 Nov 2001
Location: yorkshire wolds
Posts: 288
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check out www.geocities.com/~ninalee/oneill/ and click on the Magician
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I feel that I am diagonally parked in a parallel universe |
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17-03-2002
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Trogon
G.O.P. (Grizzled Old Prospector)
Join Date: 26 Aug 2002
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 1,631
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Okay... I'm a little late chiming in here... I only just got around to checking this forum!  From the Glossary of Symbolic Terms in "A Complete Guide to the Tarot" by Eden Gray; "Rose - 1. White Rose: Freedom form lower forms of desire and passion. 2. Red Rose: Represents Venus, Nature, Desire." "Lily - Abstract thought untinged by desire." For a different take; from the Glossary of Symbols in "The Mystical Tarot" by Rosemary Ellen Guiley; "Rose. Victory, pride, triumphant love, erotic love, the mystic center of the heart. A single rose signifies consummate achievement, a white rose purity or victory, a red rose blood or martyrdom. Dante used the white rose as a symbol of joy and regeneration. In Rosicrucianism, the rose is a symbol of the unity between the dualistic principles of the physical and the spirit in humankind. The rose also is a symbol of the Pentacle." "Lily. Purity. Also, sweetness and virginity. In Christianity, a symbol of the Virgin Mary. Hope this has been of some help to the discussion.
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Trogon "You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time ... but, if you don't teach them to read, you can fool them whenever you like!" [Max Headroom] (And if you know who that is, you're as old as me!) |
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05-02-2003
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A Rose by any other name...
