Aeclectic Tarot
Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Forum Archive

Escaping from the Tree of Life?

  > Aeclectic Tarot Forum > Beyond Tarot > Kabbalah & Alphabets


 
Rose Lalonde  Rose Lalonde is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 21 May 2014
Location: Land of Light and Rain
Posts: 1,096
Rose Lalonde 
Citizen

Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
For example, Keter is the latent hunger, you're hungry without even realizing it. That divides into the Fool, your actual hunger, and the Magician, your stomach telling your brain that you're hungry. The Fool goes to Chochma, your fully formed hunger, which then connects with the Empress, could be the "empty" feeling potential (what are you hungry for? Sweet? Salty?) which then meets Binah, your fully formed realization of hunger.

What are you going to make? Right now your hunger is still abstract, you're hungry for something but not sure what. Chesed is peering into the fridge and seeing what you have. It ls your raw materials. Geburah is the desire for bread and jam, you really want these things and will do anything to get them. Tiphareth is the ideal state of having all your ingredients, the sandwich is all but made in your mind, and it is absolutely perfect. Netzach is about the actual work in making the sandwich while Hod is you admiring the finished product. You have a sandwich, it may not be the ideal sandwich you dreamt of, but it is good enough. In Yesod you sniff the mouth-watering smell of your sandwich and in Malkuth you finally eat and satisfy your original hunger.
Favorite post this week. And surprisingly helpful with my understanding of Yesod, which tends to trip me up.

This reminds me a bit of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu describing the steps of Dependent Origination as they relate to a child whose doll breaks. If something's a useful description of the way the universe works, it's not only true about a great moment of calm or when inside a beautiful monastery; it's true when you're irritable and stinky with the flu, and it's true when making a sandwich. It's that quality about the Tree of Life that first interested me in the Thoth.
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #31
ravenest's Avatar
ravenest  ravenest is offline
ravenator
 
Join Date: 02 Feb 2006
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 13,835
ravenest 
ravenator

ravenest's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
The Tree of Life does have relevance in mundane matters, and when used right it can be a powerful tool. Its names and definitions may touch upon the spiritual but as the cliché goes "as above, so below," these are used merely as placeholders for real things. What it describes is a process of an idea unfolding from the abstract to the actual, and that can be the development of the God-potential into Man, or it can describe making a sandwich. It does both of these equally well.
Yes! And I can make one hell of a nice kabbalistic sandwhich !

It is interesting that some seem to think one has to 'come out of' a spiritual understanding about life to be able to deal with the mundane problems in modern life ....

Actually, I think a spiritual system is rather worthless unless it CAN address some of those 'problems' .... which very well may have resulted from a lack of such a view in the first place.

Aside from that, there are many practical applications, BenHalevi (in one of his books ) shows how many things can be understood via the ToL - including the functions and mechanics of a car .

Also, at work, I had a bit of a reputation as a Mr Fixit ; people would come to me with problems about a process or equipment ( that I didnt understand), I would ask them to put it in layman's terms, then I would say what I thought was going wrong ... they would think a bit and then ... "Of course ! If I take it apart from the other side I won't have to disconnect the fragggaclix." And they go and fix it ... although I had no idea what they just said. I got offered jobs in 4 different departments .... but I stayed 'loyal' to my boss and was happy where I was.

And it just isnt things, its processes and people, we all operate under certain dynamics.

The point is, if one can get a range of 'natural' processes understood, they can often apply to a whole range of 'manifestations' .... thats the 'sideways extension' of 'as above so below'

"As below, so above and beyond, I imagine
drawn beyond the lines of reason. " - Tool.
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #32
ravenest's Avatar
ravenest  ravenest is offline
ravenator
 
Join Date: 02 Feb 2006
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 13,835
ravenest 
ravenator

ravenest's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by foolMoon View Post
Could you please elaborate more on the old way of thinking and the current conditioned mind set based on Cartesian Dualism?

I used to think Cartesian dualism is purely on Mind and Body separate dualism in Theory of Knowledge and Perception. I can't quite see relevance on that system with Tarot, and also wrong and old way of thinking.
Hmmmm .... that could be a big post. So I will be really basic about it.

The guy in the vid seems to think 'spiritual knowledge' or having an understanding of how Kabbalah works, or seeing the world from that point of view, is somehow separated from mundane reality and one can not apply to the other ... there is a dualistic separation.

Giving the 'real' and the 'ideal' separated 'fields' ( the basic Cartesian division) is a recent development.

'Old school' - of course the little people are out there in the garden, sometimes they leave footprints, sometimes they dont, some can see them, some cant. You cant catch one, but my Uncle who is a 'special person' did. he caught one and kept him in a cage, but he disappeared on the sunrise. This stuff really happens !

Angels come down and talk to you ... devils persecute you ? Of course they do! Everyone knows that ! Take these prayers and spells, you will be 'better' soon.

'New School' - they are either there or not. Its probabaly a myth, a lie, an hallucination. Things like that dont happen in the real world, they happen in the realm of mind and imagination - in the ideal world, not the real world.

Angels come down and talk to you ... devils persecute you ? Of course they don't! Everyone knows that ! Here, take this medication, you will be 'better' soon.

Its not actually 'wrong way' of thinking but wrong application of 'thinking style' to the subject at hand. Psychology is closer to understanding this dynamic, but it misinterprets a lot of phenomena as originating with the observer .

Some people are well programmed in this, they cannot give any validity to tarot, astrology, mythology etc.

Others can see the connections but try to comprehend it from the dualistic literalistic mind set ... lights in the forest and a strange experience was not coming close to the fairy realm, where things ('reality') are 'plastic', it was a UFO encounter with a metallic spaceship and REAL solid aliens ( I felt em probe me! ) .

I better stop there

It can be followed with reading;

Understanding the pre dualistic mind in science and religion - changes in the development and focus of science 1400 - 1800 'Origins of Modern Science' - Herbert Butterfield.

Even just a reading of Ch. 1 will give a good background on the subject .

An overview on the whole tradition and how it effects us today - ' The Philosopher's Secret Fire - A history of the Imagination' and

An alternative viewpoint , the 3rd view ( 'between duality') ' Daemonic Reality' both by Patrick Harpur.

http://www.harpur.org/PJCHdaimonicreality.htm

Also, Jung's ' Black' and 'Red' Books - if you can get hold of them
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #33
ravenest's Avatar
ravenest  ravenest is offline
ravenator
 
Join Date: 02 Feb 2006
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 13,835
ravenest 
ravenator

ravenest's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by foolMoon View Post

When a client comes along to you, and asks whether his / her partner is having an affair, or is he / she right partner for marriage, or will she win the lotto this month, what is Tree of Life got to do with it? That is what he is saying.
Indeed! That is the crux of the question isnt it ? Nothing ... according to guy in vid

or everything , according to others.

Lets go back to the example of the doctor; is he going to give me the whole pharmacology of a drug or just say "Take this and your allergy will be gone."

Yes, I am the type of person that will ask how it works, what are the side effects, etc.

The doctor may ... or he might be interested and enthusiastic about my interest in my own welfare ... or he might get angry because he is actually selling you modern 'snake oil' .

But really, should one use medical science for a sniffle? Should the vast wealth of knowledge available in Tarot be used to be able to tell "If that guy in the office at work likes me?"

Tradition and consensus seems to say yes. But I gave those sorts of issues up loooong ago.

If it was a serious relationship issue, I would delve deeper than a tarot reading and examine the astrology, the people's background, their genetics, family, ancestors, current conditionings ... and that would be the context I did any reading on .... a serious reading where people family and children might be effected ... or an undertaking of a marriage or 'breeding programme' .

If it was a mundane question ... a silly mundane question that can be sorted out without dragging the tarot down to that level ... I would give the answer without tarot ; " What do you mean you dont know if he likes you or not, just ask him, get a friend to find out, invite him for coffee .... "

If I did do a reading like that, it would be for fun, and I would not be using the tarot 'properly' nor have need for 'complex' associations ... although I might do that for fun too .

And since I am being so opinionated today .... I will venture that the guy in the vid does a lot of 'forlorn love readings' for money ... and he is trying to protect his 'nest egg' ... in some roundabout way.

Either that or he doesnt understand the subject at all.

To answer you question in another way (and to be simplistic about it):

Is this person right for marriage ? Well, we have three 7s in this reading ... 7s are Netzach and associated with Venus and ....
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #34
Zephyros's Avatar
Zephyros  Zephyros is offline
Jedi
 
Join Date: 31 Jan 2004
Location: Israel
Posts: 8,179
Zephyros 
Jedi

Zephyros's Avatar

Now, while I wouldn't call the Golden Dawn a "self-group," it is important to keep in mind that their model of the Tree was part of a greater magical regimen. Initiation was meant to improve this life, or all lives, but that improvement was not relegated to abstract spirituality alone. The members did not withdraw from society in order to seek illumination but rather sought to participate in it and improve it magically by improving themselves. They sought to understand the inner workings of the universe and then carry out that knowledge both in spiritual affairs as well as in mundane matters.

Heck, Pixie's drawings, for the most part, are a good demonstration of this. As far as general Kabbalistic and rough astrological structure goes, they are usually "right," at least in spirit, as far as their attributions go. But, they show them in action, in real scenes. Many find this useful, especially those who do not study kabbalah, but I find it somewhat limiting because the images capture such a small part of the bigger picture of the card that there simply isn't enough to work with. In this case less is more, because more "austere" pips decks actually do allow more freedom.
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #35
ravenest's Avatar
ravenest  ravenest is offline
ravenator
 
Join Date: 02 Feb 2006
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 13,835
ravenest 
ravenator

ravenest's Avatar

I think that is an important distinction.


Some people seem to be able to sense the 'Platonic Form' ... the 'energy field' of a thing and the many things it can manifest and what these interact with - on an abstract level - or a 'symbolic minor'.

Some are better at discerning a specific manifestation of a form - the 'scenic minor' ... from that they sorta work backwards and see other specific forms that relate to the depicted form.

Personally, I agree with your conclusions.
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #36
foolMoon's Avatar
foolMoon  foolMoon is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 30 Apr 2014
Location: Garden of Light
Posts: 985
foolMoon 
Citizen

foolMoon's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
Hmmmm .... that could be a big post. So I will be really basic about it.

The guy in the vid seems to think 'spiritual knowledge' or having an understanding of how Kabbalah works, or seeing the world from that point of view, is somehow separated from mundane reality and one can not apply to the other ... there is a dualistic separation.

Giving the 'real' and the 'ideal' separated 'fields' ( the basic Cartesian division) is a recent development.

'Old school' - of course the little people are out there in the garden, sometimes they leave footprints, sometimes they dont, some can see them, some cant. You cant catch one, but my Uncle who is a 'special person' did. he caught one and kept him in a cage, but he disappeared on the sunrise. This stuff really happens !
The Cartesian dualism is strictly for division of Mind and Body, not between Reality and Ideal world, or old and new ways of thinking.

The knowledge of mundane and spiritual world is surely different state of consciousness. You need to somewhat elevate your consciousness and enter into the realm of ideal world to be able to think, see and know things in metaphysical level.

In order to communicate with angels and demons, you need to have an altered state of mind.
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #37
foolMoon's Avatar
foolMoon  foolMoon is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 30 Apr 2014
Location: Garden of Light
Posts: 985
foolMoon 
Citizen

foolMoon's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
Indeed! That is the crux of the question isnt it ? Nothing ... according to guy in vid

or everything , according to others.

Lets go back to the example of the doctor; is he going to give me the whole pharmacology of a drug or just say "Take this and your allergy will be gone."

Yes, I am the type of person that will ask how it works, what are the side effects, etc.

The doctor may ... or he might be interested and enthusiastic about my interest in my own welfare ... or he might get angry because he is actually selling you modern 'snake oil' .

But really, should one use medical science for a sniffle? Should the vast wealth of knowledge available in Tarot be used to be able to tell "If that guy in the office at work likes me?"

Tradition and consensus seems to say yes. But I gave those sorts of issues up loooong ago.

If it was a serious relationship issue, I would delve deeper than a tarot reading and examine the astrology, the people's background, their genetics, family, ancestors, current conditionings ... and that would be the context I did any reading on .... a serious reading where people family and children might be effected ... or an undertaking of a marriage or 'breeding programme' .

If it was a mundane question ... a silly mundane question that can be sorted out without dragging the tarot down to that level ... I would give the answer without tarot ; " What do you mean you dont know if he likes you or not, just ask him, get a friend to find out, invite him for coffee .... "

If I did do a reading like that, it would be for fun, and I would not be using the tarot 'properly' nor have need for 'complex' associations ... although I might do that for fun too .

And since I am being so opinionated today .... I will venture that the guy in the vid does a lot of 'forlorn love readings' for money ... and he is trying to protect his 'nest egg' ... in some roundabout way.

Either that or he doesnt understand the subject at all.

To answer you question in another way (and to be simplistic about it):

Is this person right for marriage ? Well, we have three 7s in this reading ... 7s are Netzach and associated with Venus and ....
You can use Tree of Life or anything to explain anything under the Sun, but some just sounds not natural or convincing. Tree of Life is definitely good way to explain more higher concepts, but not making sandwiches or going to the cinema. It sounds rather muddled and more confusing when explained in TOL frame, and people who never come across TOL would feel confused on what you are talking about.

Making sandwiches when hungry doesn't need Tree of Life to get explained, because it gets understood most clearly, when simply expressed.

And doctors are there to help you with whatever health problem you have, and she / he will try to provide you with whatever best method to cure your problems. She / he won't prescribe you with a course of strong antibiotics, when all you need is a drink of cold water.

I think he does know his stuff. He seems have done a lot of readings on the topic as well as having many years of experience in Tarot. He just seems have his own way and ideas of doing Tarot readings.
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #38
smw's Avatar
smw  smw is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 26 Sep 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 623
smw 
Citizen

smw's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by foolMoon View Post
You can use Tree of Life or anything to explain anything under the Sun, but some just sounds not natural or convincing. Tree of Life is definitely good way to explain more higher concepts, but not making sandwiches or going to the cinema. It sounds rather muddled and more confusing when explained in TOL frame, and people who never come across TOL would feel confused on what you are talking about.

Hi Fool moon

Is using the TOL where it is helpful or relevant the same as needing to 'escape' from it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHB
"it's about breaking out of the tree because the tree is a limitation...it stops you doing things...it say's you can't go there...you can't do this...this is bad...this is evil...your gonna die...
what do you make of this? or what does anyone else think who has seen the vid?
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #39
foolMoon's Avatar
foolMoon  foolMoon is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 30 Apr 2014
Location: Garden of Light
Posts: 985
foolMoon 
Citizen

foolMoon's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by smw View Post
Hi Fool moon

Is using the TOL where it is helpful or relevant the same as needing to 'escape' from it?



what do you make of this? or what does anyone else think who has seen the vid?
Hi smw

That's the part where I am not sure, hence put up the original post
What do you think about it?
 Need help? Get your live Tarot Reading now      Top   #40
 


 


Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Forum Archive
Aeclectic Tarot Forum Links
· Tarot
· Tarot Special Interest
· Beyond Tarot
· Forum Library

Aeclectic Tarot Categories
· Angel Decks
· Dark & Gothic Decks
· Goddess Decks
· Fairy Decks
· Doreen Virtue Decks
· Beginner Decks
· Cat Decks
· Pagan & Wiccan Decks
· Ancient Egyptian Decks
· Celtic Decks
· Lenormand Decks
· Rider-Waite Decks
· Marseilles Decks
· Thoth Decks
· Oracle Decks
· List All Decks
· Popular Tarot Decks
· Available Decks
· Tarot Books
· What's New

The Aeclectic Tarot Forum closed permanently on July 14th, 2017. The public threads remain online as a read-only archive and resource. More information on our decision can be found here. Thank you for being a part of our active community over the past seventeen years.

Copyright © 1996 - 2017 Aeclectic Tarot. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy. Contact us.