The unwashed general public & the book of Thoth

ravenest

To continue your teenager analogy, I think it's more like the sentence parents say that every kid hates: "you'll know when you're older". The magic moment is when you realize your parents were right. :)

:thumbsup:

“When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.” - Mark Twain.

Esoteric is a vast field of knowledge and it cannot be grasped all at once. Also, some of it may not even be learned on purely intellectual level. Try to explain what is like to be in love for someone who hasn't ever experienced it.

yep ... there is that juicy sweet mango again ;)
 

Aunty Anthea

We probably do already know these things. We just don't know we know them, because people who know don't know we know them without asking us. I bet a lot of people join secret societies and when they get told the supposedly secret stuff think 'well duh, that was obvious'.

You are 100% correct :)

A great many people have inner, often inherited knowledge. As they do not know how to come to terms with, or make use of their feelings knowledge and abilities, they often join secret societies or witches covens. Some are sort after by such societies who are often able to see abilities in a person before that person realises those abilities themselves })
 

Barleywine

You are 100% correct :)

A great many people have inner, often inherited knowledge. As they do not know how to come to terms with, or make use of their feelings knowledge and abilities, they often join secret societies or witches covens. Some are sort after by such societies who are often able to see abilities in a person before that person realises those abilities themselves })

Inherited, yes. When I first approached qabalah over 40 years ago, I felt a kind of immediate "ancestral connection" to it. Although my father's family ostensibly came from Germany, both he and his fatrher were dark-haired and dark-complexioned, wirh piercing black eyes; nothing Aryan about either of those gentlemen. My brother and I concluded that they looked Saracen, and had to be of Middle Eastern extraction, which might help explain the sympathetic reaction I felt. Back in the early '80s, I contacted the Upstate New York chapter of the O.T.O about joining because I was starved for intelligent interaction on my interests, but they never responded. Maybe I should have sent money?

The same was true when I began exploring druid-craft, but on my mother's side. Her lineage is Lowland Scots and Irish. Of course, the link there may be less tenuous since my maternal grandmother read playing cards (although never for us kids), and one of my mother's first cousins is a Spiritualist medium. It seems to be in the blood.
 

Samweiss

Inherited, yes. When I first approached qabalah over 40 years ago, I felt a kind of immediate "ancestral connection" to it. Although my father's family ostensibly came from Germany, both he and his fatrher were dark-haired and dark-complexioned, wirh piercing black eyes; nothing Aryan about either of those gentlemen. My brother and I concluded that they looked Saracen, and had to be of Middle Eastern extraction, which might help explain the sympathetic reaction I felt. Back in the early '80s, I contacted the Upstate New York chapter of the O.T.O about joining because I was starved for intelligent interaction on my interests, but they never responded. Maybe I should have sent money?

The same was true when I began exploring druid-craft, but on my mother's side. Her lineage is Lowland Scots and Irish. Of course, the link there may be less tenuous since my maternal grandmother read playing cards (although never for us kids), and one of my mother's first cousins is a Spiritualist medium. It seems to be in the blood.

Just around the time I started my journey with tarot and meditation, my father got hold of family research from his cousin. The research showed that the ancestral father, or progenitor, of our family was a famous healer and wiseman in his time. I took that as a good sign for my new-found activities.
 

Aeon418

I contacted the Upstate New York chapter of the O.T.O about joining because I was starved for intelligent interaction on my interests, but they never responded. Maybe I should have sent money?
Initial silence isn't always what it appears to be. Sometimes you have to take a leaf out of the Jehovah's Witness handbook, and keep banging on the door until someone answers. (And don't stop if you see the curtains twitch! :laugh:)
 

thorhammer

Back in the early '80s, I contacted the Upstate New York chapter of the O.T.O about joining because I was starved for intelligent interaction on my interests, but they never responded. Maybe I should have sent money?.
I had a similar response from the WA (Australian) chapter. It was indicated to me some time after that perhaps that was a test, just as Aeon418 said. I've concluded it's a way to humiliate you right away, designed to get you breaking down your ego from the get-go. I see the point but am deeply distrustful of putting myself at the mercy of people I can't even see like that.
 

Grigori

Pg 76: 'with regard to the Pelican, it's full symbolism is only available to initiates of the fifth degree of the O.T.O.'

Pg 59: 'This is a doctrine only appreciable in its fullness by members of the sovereign sanctuary of the gnosis of the ninth degree of O.T.O'

Pg 102:'it is impossible to explain these terms to any but advanced students of alchemy.'

Pg 103: 'there is a particular interpretation of this card which is only to be understood by initiates of the ninth degree of the O.T.O for it contains a practical magical formula of such importance as to make it impossible to communicate it openly.'

It might be helpful to rephrase sentences like this. What I see when reading these is more like:

Pg 76: Fifth degree initiates of the OTO should notice this pelican

Pg 59: Ninth degree initiates of the OTO will recognise this

Pg 102: Advanced students of alchemy will find this most familiar

Pg 103: Ninth degree OTO initiates utilise this in practical magic

I think it's useful to remember that the Thoth deck was intended to be Thelma illustrated, and the OTO as a Thelemic organisation is referenced frequently. It's not really very different than saying 'a chemist will understand this chemical formula best', but a bit of victorian pomposity in the phrasing :D

If you're not interested in the OTO, may as well use your own interpretation I'd say :)
 

La'al quiet fella

Aha moments have been going on since humans first existed, there are no original ideas, just gradual evolution and transmission of ideas; some orders may have thought they were guarding some great mysteries, alas that is just the kind of closeted thinking which is caused by not throwing discussion wide to everyone. Just like every teenager thinks that they are the only person who has ever experienced heartbreak or rebellion.

In fact shared knowledge and open to the public discussion, a bit like peer reviewing studies, might have helped them see the wood for the trees! :joke:

Anyway I dug this article out for you :livelong:
http://www.esoteric.msu.edu/VolumeV/Unleashing_the_Beast.htm

Thank you for digging the article out for me. It was very nice of you and very interesting for me to read.
 

La'al quiet fella

Thank you

thankyou everyone for your replies....they were really useful in helping me get a better understanding of what Crowley meant by his references to the O.T.O. and plenty more.

Hearing about all the different perspectives was great.

Hugely appreciated!
 

Barleywine

Initial silence isn't always what it appears to be. Sometimes you have to take a leaf out of the Jehovah's Witness handbook, and keep banging on the door until someone answers. (And don't stop if you see the curtains twitch! :laugh:)

Shortly after that episode, I went into the BOTA program and spent several years with it, so I never looked back. Now my yen for talking about this stuff is met on-line for the most part.