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The Visconti-Sforza Tarot in 3-D

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Adrian Goldwetter  Adrian Goldwetter is offline
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Adrian Goldwetter 
The Visconti-Sforza Tarot in 3-D


Hello Everyone!

I thought I should give the Aeclectic family a try - with good reason and after some efforts I made.

I got permission from Alta by PM to post these JPGs I already made for a thread on tarothistory.com under the same title - but I'll do it here in this forum for historical decks with "neutralized" (well somewhat...) texts.
Some statements that come with these JPGs may seem a bit ironical still though - because there is allways a backstory...

Of mine you could get a glimpse if you read another thread of mine on tarothistory.com (Alta said linking there should be fine... ) with the title "Tarotée - The Back-Door To The Secret"

http://forum.tarothistory.com/viewto...16c03261e9ee03

This topic here could be considered a "prequel" to that thread there. Some of you may have seen "Starwars" over the years and are already made familiar with that concept

So... I could really need some help here and because you have been around here and on the research road so much longer than I it could very well be that you have a solution to the problem this request is about.

Before I came here (and there) I asked a friend to write an e-mail to Mr. William M. Voelkle who serves as Senior Research Curator in the Medieval & Renaissance Manuscripts section of The MORGAN (wvoelkle@themorgan.org) on my behalf because I'm not so good with words.

Those who visited the "Tarotée - The Back-Door To The Secret" thread know that already.

Now I know of course that my request should be one of many - but while I'm still waiting patiently for an expert's response I thought I might give it a try around here since many of you seem to know these very special cards quite well.

So here goes my research...

(Anyways: thank you for your interest and clicking - but now to the pics... )



































Every well thought-out "shuffling concept" shall be taken very seriously by me and would be an appreciated help in this precarious situation. For some stimuli you could have a look here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuffling



Please enjoy

Adrian
Top   #1
Adrian Goldwetter  Adrian Goldwetter is offline
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Adrian Goldwetter 

This post could be called "secondary information".

The link to The MORGAN for those among us who do not do typing much and maybe looked more at the fascinating JPGs instead of additionally reading the accompanying text.

http://www.themorgan.org/collection/tarot-cards

There they have a marvelous modern feature installed that is called "zoomify".

When you click on the assumed name of a "card" in the menu a new window with the picture of the "card" opens and above left hand is the option "Zoom".
Be patient now because sometimes it takes a bit to load but it's really well worth the wait!

Below the picture of the "card" are several "buttons" and when you "push" the "+" "button" you are in for a real treat.
You have the "card" under a microscope now and you can look at all the most intimate details a 500 year old entity never would show you with her consent I suppose.

You can learn about wrinkles and cracks and even the 3-D structure itself because when you max out the feature you can actually SEE how the hemispherical bumps in the golden kilim cast SHADOWS.

That is really fun - believe me!
And the best part is that you wouldn't have to take my word for it. Just do it yourself and be entertained...

Adrian
Top   #2
Adrian Goldwetter  Adrian Goldwetter is offline
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Adrian Goldwetter 

Hellow Fellow Citizens.

Yes. I don't sleep. My only concern is this matter at hand (for now).

Now I know that most of the hard working population here and elsewhere has not the time to go to museums and look on matters of importance anyway they want.

So: I did it for you - and brought something back to appease the thirst for knowledge that surely now has afflicted the hearts of the faithful - and with no time for a (virtual) visit at hand reach this should be an even more excruciating pain I thought...

...and so proceeded to action!









When you learn about paper production in Renaissance you'll see that it was all about getting the water out of the mushy pulp you made first...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_machine


>> History of paper machines

Long before the invention of continuous paper making, paper was made in individual sheets by stirring a container of pulp slurry and either pouring it into a fabric sieve called a sheet mould or dipping and lifting the sheet mould from the vat. While still on the fabric in the sheet mould the wet paper is pressed to remove excess water and then the sheet was lifted off to be hung over a rope or wooden rod to air dry. In 1799... <<


So UNTIL the dawn of reason paper was produced following this above described method that you can still replicate on your kitchen-table (in principle).
The most severe problem is to get enough water out to produce a cohesive layer of paper that can be worked with.

Writing and drawing or folding paper hats goes with practically any stuff.
Cardboard instead is a whole different animal.

And STRONG cardboard - well - you would have to be somewhat imaginative with your resources there in your kitchen...

The craftsmen who produced the cardboard for Filippo's treasure here were quite good because you can see that the cardboard of the "card" is quite dense - but NOT as dense as modern quality cardboard would be. Today we measure the thickness of paper in caliper (measured in '')


Here is a product from amazon.com that fits the 2 mm bill of my model exactly:

0.08'' (0.203 cm which rounds up to 2.0 mm)

http://www.amazon.com/Chipboard-Cali...HH2FRVBSX8NNFE


In Milan back then you would have had to go to the next supplier in town and work with what he had got - maybe with Filippo's resources you could have placed an order for a whole batch to your artisan convenience - but when it was ready you would have to come again and approve whether it was rugged enough for "card making" - the special one you had set your mind on!

You would have decided by FEELING what the cardboard was able to do (bending to a certain amount - but really not much) or not (breaking for instance) and "caliper" wouldn't have clouded your thinking to much because USEABILITY for the purpose you had in mind and pondered a lot was key in your decisions - and those were foremost guided by what a "card" should be able to carry on his/her plate. Like it was DONE.

When you look at the making of the surviving 74 you can surely tell with one glance that a game of cards at a table wasn't the first purpose they got their appearance from. Just the FORMAT of 173 mm to 87 mm would have been much to clumsy for that purpose - or let's just say not the best choice for a game. What would be granted by that dimensions was (and still is) that the depictions can be seen very clearly from a distance of up to 10 feet maybe.

On tarothistory.com I have written more about this and the why.

Here is the foremost issue to clear the 74 survivors from the suspicion of "card games" because they are honorable bee-ings and not be be charged with the crime of shallowness by anyone.







So far this was a good day and I wish the same for you

Adrian
Top   #3
Adrian Goldwetter  Adrian Goldwetter is offline
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Adrian Goldwetter 

And here I bring you some more impressions from my visit at The MORGAN.







I couldn't help it this time. It was just too hard to stay on topic.
This post is about the thickness of the PMB "cards" - I know.
BUT this "card" is very unusual (even regarding the sole pole position of this special set of 74). The hints that I give here in the JPG "inscription" about said source are more fully referred to in: Tarotée - The Back-Door To The Secret at TH.
There would be much more to say about this "card" for sure.

One thing is that here the real change took place AEW was not fully informed about by his (free?) masonic sources - well - one PART of that change.

The function this "card" had in Milan was transferred in part to the later STAR(s) of the TdM.
So The STAR(s) got the numeral XVII in the TdM and this fellow got his brother back from The WORLD here in Milan and went to the TdM with the numeral XVIIII along with the other kilim structure behind their backs in Milan that became depicted on the TdM as a wall.

In other words you COULD say though that The WORLD of Milan BECAME The SUN when you look at the circular structure above the 2 (now in TdM terms) children on the TdM card.

Can you guess what really happened to Milan's setting SUN?

You see here that it is a little bit MORE complicated like in AEW's quite limited WORLD view

That is the truth on the surface for now - and you may go now and have a look for yourself.

The deeper layers would surely not fit in this tiny post - but there IS more still. Much.

If you want to you may have a look here too:
Page 8 of the tarothistory.com thread - 3rd post from the top
JPG: 78 Shades Of "CHEM" - The REVERSED MAN (T-2)

http://forum.tarothistory.com/viewto...=1044&start=70

There I show how the structure of the supposed 22 great secrets (in MY world) should be like with some exceptions I claim but don't show - but I ask the readers what COULD be wrong with the SYMMETRY.
Now you know ONE part of the deal!









More about The REAL GAME is strewn throughout that specific thread - but really not fully formed - just hints for the "gamers" and those who want to become.

An advice I would like to be duly noted:
Those who are interested should from time to time read through the 3-D thread on TH too because not all that is THERE is available HERE in this version - mostly conversational notes.



Alright! That was fun - wasn't it?

Adrian
Top   #4
Naomi Ningishzidda  Naomi Ningishzidda is offline
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Naomi Ningishzidda 

Ah, the Visconti sun, my favorite. Note all the Orphic Mystery Religion symbology. These cards are just a treasure trove. I am curious as to why you would assume left means West. Since in the tropic of Cancer if you look at the sun directly, WEST is actually RIGHT. Do you know something I don't (using cartography/map logic maybe?)

This sun would appear to be moving backwards if you were in Italy looking up at the sky and saw that. The giant baby might also be a clue that one was on ergot or something

Looking forward to your take on the Devil which was lost. I do not like the hairy devil because I feel like it's a maligned Pan of Arcadia and if you examine the devils from that time they don't look the same.

I'm enjoying this thread but where is your thread on the REAL GAME? The link I had took me to another thread.

Jealous of your trip to the Morgan!
Top   #5
Adrian Goldwetter  Adrian Goldwetter is offline
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Hi Naomi Ningishzidda.
(Do you prefer to be called by your full name or would Naomi do too?)

Thanks for your interest and reply. I hope though that it isn't disappointing for you when I tell you that this thread is not about the PMB "cards" one by one. The Pictures here from The MORGAN are meant as an "illustration" of the model of the 74 surviving PMBs that you see at the start in the 1st post.

There it is shown that it was impossible to use the 74 like cards for a mundane game at a table in anyway - like the JPGs show without a possible doubt when you follow through.
The JPGs from The MORGAN are only here to verify that my assumptions about the THICKNESS of each "card" that stems from their very specific make-up and is NOWHERE documented (I'm waiting still for a reply from Mr. Voelkle... ) are very near accurate and should add to a height of roughly 10 inches or 26 cm (roughly) for the whole pack of 74 surviving "cards" what makes it IMPOSSIBLE to use them in a normal game of cards because no human with his tiny hands could shuffle them (as stated above at the start).

Moreover you can see on the "zoomified" pictures that their all around structure and make-up is much to fragile to be used at a "gambling table" as "playing cards" after a giant has shuffled them for you.
So you see: This is more a "technical" topic - but it is related to the "Tarotée - The Back-Door To The Secret" at TH that is linked here often.

About your question why LEFT is WEST:

http://www.1worldglobes.com/History/historyofmaps.htm

An excerpt from the text there that is about a map from 1482 that circulated in different translations and make-ups in Italy since 1410 (where it it was translated from Greek into Latin in Florence, Italy about 1410):

>> The most poular geographical work to be printed from movable type in the fifteenth century was Ptolemy's Geography or Cosmography. Originally compiled by the Alexandrian geographer, astronomer, and mathematician Claudius Ptolemy in the second century A.D., it was translated from Greek into Latin in Florence, Italy about 1410. The map of the world here reproduced, beautifully illuminated with twelve wind heads, is one of thirty-two maps illustrating the edition of the Cosmographia issued from the press of Lienhart Holle of Ulm, Germany, on July 6, 1482. Holle's edition was the first to be printed north of the Alps and the first to include maps printed from woodcuts. To produce his printed editin, Holle used a manuscript copy prepared under the direction of the Benedictine Monk known as Donnus Nicolaus Germanus. ... <<

The map:







I hope that settles your issue?

>> I'm enjoying this thread but where is your thread on the REAL GAME? The link I had took me to another thread. <<

I assume that you were at the correct place then because I check the links after I post them. (And in THERE you can find a LOT of other links that refer to that matter... )

>> Jealous of your trip to the Morgan! <<

That's sooo nice of you to say and it makes me a bit jealous too - because I went to The MORGAN with my keyboard - just like you could do too by following the given link and you have all the 35 "cards" they own at your fingertips



I hope I could have been of service

Adrian

P.S. It just came to me where I read your name - it was on the Introboard and you gave a real good lecture about 93. I just wish that you would treat what is said here with a similar type of concentration.

P.P.S. About the "giant baby" that I forgot in my reply to your post: You may have noticed (or not? Because you said that The (Visconti) SUN from THIS special deck was your favorite or did you speak of another that bears "all the Orphic Mystery Religion symbology" that I do not recall at the moment? If so this maybe my fault!) that the "baby" "wears" wings? What should make him - like the 2 on "The WORLD" of Milan an ANGEL what usually means MESSENGER. From a "modern" and "reasonable" point of view it is totally OK to denote religious "visions" as delusional or a psychotic symptom loosely said - but not during Renaissance when every noble aristocrat would have killed for a man like the later Paracelsus in his service - so why would you mention ergot in this context (what I take for an expression for our LSD)? Given your real life (www) this sounds a bit "double-edged" taking your interests in the occult into account - no? Please correct me where I may have gotten you wrong!

P.P.P.S. I must add another thing Naomi. How could you ask for my take on The DEVIL of the PMB survivors when I always mention that the topic here are the real recovered 74 bee-ings and you already know that The DEVIL is missing - like you mentioned? Just out of personal interest I ask you this question
Top   #6
Adrian Goldwetter  Adrian Goldwetter is offline
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Adrian Goldwetter 
The MORGAN replied!


So we got now a substantial report from Mr. Voelkle who happens to be a very thorough guy and though provided not only the true measurements BUT some further inconsistencies so far unknown!

I'll be back with a new model and comments!

This should take some days - but of course you are free to follow your endeavors wherever they may take you...

Have a good time as ever

Adrian
Top   #7
Naomi Ningishzidda  Naomi Ningishzidda is offline
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Well I wish I would pay more attention too. You may call me Naomi although I do prefer Izi.

Glorious Orpheus was at the center of the Hierophant's Rites of Eleusis, and ergot was at the center of the party. It is really apparent you have got it all right about it not being a game, unless that game includes going to war with the Medicis/Venice. Dead men don't talk but, their art does to people who are able to understand its language.

You didn't get me wrong, I am just seeing what you are about. I did go back to the thread and read some more. It is very interesting and helpful to dig up the history of Tantric Alchemy in the West that was oppressed so systematically that the brotherhood had to colonize another continent just to reboot the Renaissance.

Reclaiming the Visconti history is an important part of erasing the evils of the dead and rotting god.

You seem to know what you are talking about and I want to hear what you think about the missing cards. The Devil recreations really bother me!
Top   #8
Adrian Goldwetter  Adrian Goldwetter is offline
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Hi Izi! (I like that sound: it strikes like a LIGHTning!)

So you are back and with attention. That's a good thing too.

You should be careful though with some assumptions/interpretations about the purpose of the "cards" at hand here. Not everything is what it LOOKS like on the surface even to the trained OCCULT observer. So your text...

>> Glorious Orpheus was at the center of the Hierophant's Rites of Eleusis, and ergot was at the center of the party. It is really apparent you have got it all right about it not being a game, unless that game includes going to war with the Medicis/Venice. Dead men don't talk but, their art does to people who are able to understand its language. <<

...does lead you astray if you search for the REAL content here.

This goes DEEPER and IS very much OLDER.
1 of the scarce occasions when AC was right was when he referenced a culture (that just got a NAME shortly before he came to be) as ONE parent - The MOTHER he did not know about - but you can have a look at HER on another Visconti Tarot - thereat personified as The WORLD.

AND it is much more PRACTICAL than it LOOKS like.

It is a TOOL for SELF-Observance and SELF-Evolution in a clearly defined System that has nothing to do with the later numerals on them - or their later (or assumed) names - or later falsely assumed connections to Hebrew in the false places.

And (that was what Filippo was after - sadly - the most) a WEAPON to DESTROY and OWN your/his enemies on EVERY level they could appear in a life.

If you are interested in THIS content you really should have some more glances at the "Tarotée - The Back-Door To The Secret" on TH - there the hints are abundant to guide a seeker to the honey of the bees.
This topic doesn't fit in THIS technical matter. So sorry about The DEVIL HERE too Hon...

You said further:

>> You didn't get me wrong, I am just seeing what you are about. I did go back to the thread and read some more. It is very interesting and helpful to dig up the history of Tantric Alchemy in the West that was oppressed so systematically that the brotherhood had to colonize another continent just to reboot the Renaissance. <<

It seems that you didn't get me this or that much here and there Izi.
Nothing (as far as I remember) about TA there or here.
Your interpretations tend to put a spoke in your fast rolling wheels I dig.

The BRETHREN you mention that went to do as you say were not what you assume them to have been.
Otherwise The WORLD wouldn't look like IT does today.
IT is still under construction apart from political matters.
BUT another topic for ANOTHER thread here again.



This thread is as TECHNICAL as it gets. Caliper and shuffling is key Izi.
Still good to have you back - and being interested in something like this is a good thing too.

Adrian

P.S. Since you are so interested in The DEVIL that wasn't recovered with his siblings here I thought I will cut you a deal: Open a topic with link here in the appropriate forum section in the best possible way with all your thoughts AND PICTURES you ponder and I will give you MY TAKE on The DEVIL that doesn't come HERE > there... Mhhh? How does that sound? Interested?
Top   #9
Adrian Goldwetter  Adrian Goldwetter is offline
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So: back on topic.

I will need some more details from Mr. Voelkle that we wrote him about and begged him for to handle the model of the PMB "cards" in the correct fashion this time.

When they are provided I will post the letters back and forth together with the actualized model.

In the meantime we could have a chat though about some topics that may (should) concern you...

Adrian

P.S. Considering that it took nearly 3 weeks for the 1st reply to arrive + 1 week for my work between the shades it should be about 4 weeks or 1 month when "[we] shall (...) meet again" !

http://shakespeare-navigators.com/macbeth/T11.html

Hopefully MORE people though
Top   #10




 


 


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